Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[DidcotPunter]

When you 'defer' something without specifying a date, isn't that the same thing as 'cancelling' it?

No I suspect it is all about not making CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) commitments until CP6 is agreed.

Postponing Oxford until it can be aligned with Oxford Station improvements might save some money too

Quite. If Oxford station is to get major redevelopment in future, there's not much point in putting up the wires right now. There's some work ongoing for the new Chiltern service to Marylebone (which is supposed to be starting next month) but the major redevelopment which has been proposed has not even got funding yet.

[Richard Fairhurst]

There are some side effects here - in local planning there are 1000 homes to be built around Culham station - not so attractive a location maybe if it only has an hourly service to DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) / OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) for an unknown time.

Indeed. I doubt the Oxfordshire local authorities are very impressed with this announcement.

[ray951]

When you 'defer' something without specifying a date, isn't that the same thing as 'cancelling' it?

No I suspect it is all about not making CP6^▸ (Control Period 6 - The five year period between 2019 and 2024) commitments until CP6 is agreed.

Postponing Oxford until it can be aligned with Oxford Station improvements might save some money too

But if we wait for Oxford station to be redeveloped it will never get delivered as there is currently no funding for the station.

[Tim]

Agreed, if you can change from Diesel to Electric on the move then what is the point of completing electrification, it can be postponed indefinitely.

Although not quite sure what they will do with the electrification 'substation' at Radley which was only installed a couple of months ago.

I don't think the 387s can swop on the move.  I think that is just an IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) capability. 

I don't either - they have no diesel capability at all.

Good point. Well made

[chrisr_75]

Bi-mode has gone from being a stop-gap to a 'get out of jail free card' to be able to postpone electrification indefinitely. Look out for more of these wheezes as government finances get squeezed.

Completion of the main line is probably the shocker in here rather than the branches or even DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains)-OXF^» (Oxford - next trains).

The previous change of the train order to include more bi-mode sets looks rather premeditated to me following todays announcement of the 'deferment' of full electrification...

[1st fan]

How can Filton Bank not be electrified after all the work already done? And the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) depot there,too?

That's politics!

[1st fan]

Oh quelle surprise - so the supposed benefits for customers on the Hereford line are what exactly? The new Hitachi trains are unlikely to run any faster beyond Oxford especially if it won't be electric all the way there anymore. The seating isn't supposed to be as comfortable as the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) in 1st - I dread to think about standard. There is a lack of a buffet.

I like the quote from James Davis of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) in the Oxford Mail

"We aim to deliver 9,000 extra seats on trains across the network including on trains running between Oxford and London Paddington.

"There could also be journey-time improvements on long-distance journeys - journey time improvements from Oxford to London is not something we have ever promised."

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/14874438.Rail_electrification_between_Oxford_and_Didcot__delayed_until_further_notice_/

Given the news today and the lack of electrification that is planned beyond Oxford it looks like there won't be any speed improvements at all for Cotswold line users. I think there was only 6 minutes decrease in journey time to Hereford to begin with so not a really massive improvement with the Class 8xx.

[didcotdean]

If there was any thought that slipping out the announcement today would get it buried to any real extent that has proved to be another miscalculation.

[chrisr_75]

If there was any thought that slipping out the announcement today would get it buried to any real extent that has proved to be another miscalculation.

Indeed. Not sure if mentioned earlier in the thread, but picked up by the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) now on main news homepage:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-oxfordshire-37908735

[didcotdean]

It also led the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South regional news at 13:30.

[grahame]

I think that might be too many things on my desk causing spurious mouse clicks when I unintentionally move the mouse.

Yes I often do that - knowing that a bigger desk would just allow me to spread my clutter to fill it, a bit more discipline is needed!

If you accidentally like something, you can click again to remove the like and no-one is any the wiser.  You may need to refresh the page between the like and unlike due to my crap Javascript knowledge.

[grahame]

From The BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Electric trains are still due to start running between Cardiff and London in 2019, a minister has said, despite the deferring of work on other lines.
Work on four routes serving Bristol, Oxford and Berkshire is now on hold.
Rail minister Paul Maynard said it would free up money to "deliver additional benefits to passengers" and added Wales would not suffer delays.
"My focus is to ensure that we deliver electrification to Cardiff on time," he said of the £2.8bn modernisation plan.
Responding to a question from Cardiff West MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Kevin Brennan during a Commons rail debate, Mr Maynard said he wanted to make sure "that passengers in south Wales benefit from that electrification to the fullest degree possible".

Article continues ...

[IndustryInsider]

Quite. If Oxford station is to get major redevelopment in future, there's not much point in putting up the wires right now. There's some work ongoing for the new Chiltern service to Marylebone (which is supposed to be starting next month) but the major redevelopment which has been proposed has not even got funding yet.

There are three phases to the Oxford corridor enhancement programme. 

Phase 0 is for Chiltern and just about complete (save for an almighty rush to get the two new bay platforms ready for 6-car trains in December). 

Phase 1 delivers significant extra capacity in the form of increased speeds, new crossovers, rebuilt carriage sidings at Oxford (on both sides of the track) and new mostly 4-aspect signalling together with bi-directional running between Didcot and Tackley - which will mean the closure of Oxford PSB^▸ (Power Signal Box).  Work on that has already started, with the down sidings being remodelled during this month, new 40mph crossovers installed at Tackley and locations for the new signalling marked on the sleepers between Didcot and Oxford.  Completion date is as far as I know scheduled for 2018, though the Oxford PSB closure has been postponed many times now.

Phase 2 then builds on that with a couple of extra crossovers and signalling routes, together with an additional bi-directional Platform 5 behind what is now Platform 4.

Assuming Phase 1 is unaffected by this announcement, then I reckon it delivers approximately 80% of the benefits of the completed Phase 2 and electrification, so I would be very disappointed if today's announcement were to curtail or delay it in any way.  Phase 1 will deliver the infrastructure for IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s (on diesel) and not having electrification would only then mean the 387s can't go beyond Didcot which we were expecting to be the case until 2019 anyway.

Any reliance on funding and delivery of the new station before electrification would be a huge risk in my opinion and I could easily see it being 10+ years before the station is rebuilt, however I think there would be little affect on the infrastructure as the new station would in all likelihood be build as a transfer deck above the predicted Phase 1 and 2 track layouts.  Indeed I would have thought electrification could proceed and need little modification for a completed Phase 1 scheme with Phase 2 and the new station following on at a later date. 

I guess we just have to wait and see exactly what 'deferred' means in terms of timescales, but as long as Phase 1 isn't delayed as well, the impact on services and journey times will be fairly minimal.

[JayMac]

Following this deferment, as far as I can make out, there are no sections on which the Class 80x will operate on diesel that have line speed above 110mph, except Wootton Bassett Junction to Box.

Modest journey time improvements are supposed to come from improved acceleration and braking. And reduced dwell times thanks to the automatic doors. Where the 80x sets operate off grid, for example, on the Cotswold Line, there should still be scope to shave something off journey time.

I don't think it necessary to conflate interior comfort with this announcement though. There's enough of that elsewhere on the forum. All of which is supposition or rose-tinted nostalgia for what has gone before.

This announcement is disappointing, although not unexpected nor disastrous. It could have been worse. Box Tunnel portals and Sydney Gardens keeps their pleasant unobstructed views of the line for a few more years.  

[Adelante_CCT]

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) there is not much 125 between Thingley and Bristol, between Filton and Bristol, or between Didcot and Oxford, Not sure about Reading to Newbury. 

The timetable problem would be on the South Wales Route.

No, nothing over 100 between Reading and Newbury, also nothing over 100 westwards from Bristol Parkway