Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

My impression from the comments here are that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) needs to get out and educate those affected such that they fully understand what is needed & what is design & therefore what can be changed & what can't. It seems that many are commenting without being suitably informed

Your wording seems to say that people should not comment until they're fully - or rather "suitably" - informed Chris, and should not comment until they are.   I suspect that's not really the message you intended to give; if it is, then I would strongly say that this forum welcomes inputs and questions to help inform, and does not require people to be pre-fully-informed.

I referred to "...get out & educate those affected...." - and as I didn't refer to anyone else the following comments were addressed to the same people. i.e. not those here.

[4064ReadingAbbey]

I do wish people would accept that the design engineers probably know what they are doing and that there is a reason for things being as they are.

If one wants an electric railway with good reliability the metal work will be chunky. It will certainly be chunkier than that used on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) for good reasons.

Get over it.

I think people should be able to express an opinion without being told that others know best and to "Get over it", I wonder if these same people would feel the same way should they uncover plans for a wind turbine to be built or a motorway bypass to be routed near their house?

I was very careful to refer to 'design engineers' - being those people who designed the kit.

There is a world of a difference between 'designing' a pylon or wind turbine and selecting the position to 'install' it.

[grahame]

My impression from the comments here are that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) needs to get out and educate those affected such that they fully understand what is needed & what is design & therefore what can be changed & what can't. It seems that many are commenting without being suitably informed

Your wording seems to say that people should not comment until they're fully - or rather "suitably" - informed Chris, and should not comment until they are.   I suspect that's not really the message you intended to give; if it is, then I would strongly say that this forum welcomes inputs and questions to help inform, and does not require people to be pre-fully-informed.

I referred to "...get out & educate those affected...." - and as I didn't refer to anyone else the following comments were addressed to the same people. i.e. not those here.

Many thanks for that confirmation, Chris;  there was a second (clearly unintended) way that the text could be (and was) read.   Glad it's cleared up.   And I second the need to inform fully.

[Tim]

The uprights are above the crossbar or cantilever to carry the insulators for the autotransformer anti phase 25 kV cables, with adequate safety clearances from the steelwork.   

This is shown on the F&F web page here:   http://www.furrerfrey.ch/en/systems/Series-1.html
Please scroll lower down and select image '1 of 8'

Thanks for the info.  I'll reserve judgement until they are all up and we can see what bits do what.  At the risk of provoking the experts still further was anyone else noticed that the horizontal members are not horizontal?  I am sure that they are within tolerances but it look like NR^» (Network Rail - home page) has failed to buy a spirit level 

[lordgoata]

Thanks for the info.  I'll reserve judgement until they are all up and we can see what bits do what.  At the risk of provoking the experts still further was anyone else noticed that the horizontal members are not horizontal?  I am sure that they are within tolerances but it look like NR^» (Network Rail - home page) has failed to buy a spirit level 

Funnily enough I noticed that on a couple of masts & booms (as I see they are called!) the other day - but I wondered if the track is cambered, ie. the "horizontals" are parallel with the track ?

[Rhydgaled]

Thanks for the info.  I'll reserve judgement until they are all up and we can see what bits do what.  At the risk of provoking the experts still further was anyone else noticed that the horizontal members are not horizontal?  I am sure that they are within tolerances but it look like NR^» (Network Rail - home page) has failed to buy a spirit level

Funnily enough I noticed that on a couple of masts & booms (as I see they are called!) the other day - but I wondered if the track is cambered, ie. the "horizontals" are parallel with the track ?

On curves, I guess the track is probably canted (I think that's the correct term).

you would not believe how frustratingly difficult it is to get people to input or take an interest in things years into the future at a time that it's needed to help with the planning.  A few activists will get involved and they will ask for "the earth".  Some other groups will put in zero inputs or modest requests and the voices need to be balanced.   Then there are those who say nothing, accept what's being done - just to object a bit late in the day when it's expensive or impractical to take their wishes into account.

Regarding the Cardiff Central refurbishment plans, I'm worrying I've missed any consultation and we're at the "bit late in the day" stage, given the aparrently quite detailed artist's impressions that have been released (maybe I should have cross-quoted that in the Cardiff Central topic instead, feel free to move this part of my post if it'd be more apropriate there). However, I'm then told

there is a lot more work to do to determine the business case and the affordability, together with securing funding.

Any future public consultation exercise may be some time off, although we would clearly want to listen to people^s views before finalising any plans

and I fear they're leaving the public consultation until they've already made their minds up and won't listen to comments anyway.

[Electric train]

Part of the original remit for GWEP^▸ (Great Western Electrification Program) was
To reduce system failure which are inherent in the Mk3 as installed on MML^» (Midland Main Line. - about) (BedPan) and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) etc,
To be TSI compliant and to meet the requirements of BSEN 50122 neither of which was existed during the construction of the ECML OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE")
And to keep costs down by using standardised OLE structures and components

The installation has an impact, initially it will look ugly but eventually it will just blend into the background and very few people will even notice. 

[ellendune]

and I fear they're leaving the public consultation until they've already made their minds up and won't listen to comments anyway.

It is difficult to win here.  Either you consult asking people for their ideas and they have none and accuse you of bringing nothing to the discussion or you come with ideas and they accuse you of having already decided!

[Rhydgaled]

and I fear they're leaving the public consultation until they've already made their minds up and won't listen to comments anyway.

It is difficult to win here.  Either you consult asking people for their ideas and they have none and accuse you of bringing nothing to the discussion or you come with ideas and they accuse you of having already decided!

Good point. Maybe, if it is really the case that apparently quite detailed artist's impressions can be produced without determining the business case, establishing affordability and securing funding, then that would be a good time to consult. Surely you cannot secure funding until you have decided on the final design so you can work out how much it costs (although, in the case of GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification it doesn't sound like they had done that, and just plucked a number out of thin air). As for what the railway could bring to the discussion, a portfolio of widely varying designs (rather than just one glass & steel monstrosity) should help avoid the view that they have already made their mind up. In the case of Cardiff Central, I'd like to see full plans of the existing structures to see where there may or may not be unused space available for the required expansion of the station.

[ray951]

Moving on the discussion from the Goring gap, Network Rail (NR^» (Network Rail - home page)) have sent out a few twitter messages that the first wires for the GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification were installed last night.
NR also said they did 1000m in 35 minutes, but unfortunately don't say where this is or how much was done.

http://twitter.com/networkrailgwrm/status/665110025325682688/photo/1
http://twitter.com/networkrailgwrm/status/665109748438728704/photo/1


 

[didcotdean]

A later tweet indicated it was between Tilehurst and Pangbourne.

[SandTEngineer]

Don't get too excited now....... Looks like its only the Earth wire. Easier than putting up the actual knitting    But, hey ho, at least some positive (well in this case, earthing) progress at last

[Tim]

Don't get too excited now....... Looks like its only the Earth wire. Easier than putting up the actual knitting    But, hey ho, at least some positive (well in this case, earthing) progress at last

It is still progress so good news.  I assumed that the wire would be put up last minute.  Is it not eminently nickable for scrap at least before the OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") is electrified?

[TonyK]

Any future public consultation exercise may be some time off, although we would clearly want to listen to people^s views before finalising any plans and I fear they're leaving the public consultation until they've already made their minds up and won't listen to comments anyway.

Bristol fashion, as they say...

[grahame]

From Network Rail:

The next Bath Drop-in will be held in the Guildhall on Tuesday 1st December (4.30pm ^ 6.30pm).  Please note the earlier finishing time.
 
Come along and find out more about the work we are doing to modernise the Great Western Railway.
 
Information will be available on the TPOD 2 work planned for next Easter.

Edit to add - I have received an email recalling this announcement - goodness knows if that means the meeting's off, retimed, relocated, or has a restricted invite list now.