Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

...I was back oop t'North a short while back, and drove along a semi-rural A6 to a most acceptable dinner in a very nice pub / restaurant*. The line from Preston to Lancaster runs alongside for part of the way, and is electrified. Behind is the backdrop of the Pennines and the Trough of Bowland. Neither was diminished in any way by having the OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE")  in the foreground.

I had a squizz on Google Maps to see if I could find a location between Preston and Lancaster where the line was higher than the road, but couldn't. Even a slight cutting does wonders for making things less obtrusive. Also I think you'd have to agree that the OHLE on that stretch of line is considerably less clunky than the stuff they're running through the Goebbels Gap.

Anyway, mustn't bang on - starting to sound like the man himself:

^The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over.^

[Bmblbzzz]

However, I remain of the view that something well designed is inherently beautiful,  perhaps not in a classic sense, [...] it looks likes the elegant solution to a problem that it is. 

I think it could be said that is a classic sense of beauty. As you point out, beauty and prettiness are not the same and can even be at odds with each other.

[paul7575]

The uprights for example stick up beyond the cross bar for no real reason and that makes it look like it has been lazily (or perhaps hurriedly) designed. 

... but what is going up between Reading and Didcot looks far worse than it need be - just have a look of some earlier OHLE around the country eg at the detail design of the mast/gantry interface.

The uprights are above the crossbar or cantilever to carry the insulators for the autotransformer anti phase 25 kV cables, with adequate safety clearances from the steelwork.   

This is shown on the F&F web page here:   http://www.furrerfrey.ch/en/systems/Series-1.html
Please scroll lower down and select image '1 of 8'

Earlier portal or gantry designs predate the 50 kV auto-transformer system, therefore they are not really a fair comparison.  Where an autotransformer system has been retrofitted to an existing system such as on the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line), it has generally been done by adding more stovepipes upwards above the tracks to carry the additional cables.  It perhaps wasn't the best way, just the practical way at the time.

Paul

[stuving]

As I understand it, various continental schemes were studied as part of the initial design works.  Indeed the small part steel (the dangly bits) is based on a Swiss design from Furrer and Frey.  Nevertheless I have to agree that they do appear to be the metallic equivalent of Lego - and not in a good way!

I found some NR^» (Network Rail - home page) presentation slides that credit Furrer+Frey with the design of "Series 1", though I don't think it was called that when first used on the GE. The slides give these four points as the big pluses of the design:

Series 1 ^ Designed by Furrer & Frey
^Mono-anchor Booms
^Single insulator cantilevers / registrations
^Reduced number of components
^Reduced flaking of wires

It's no surprise that aesthetics doesn't appear on that list - you can tell just by looking that it got no more than half a second of thought in the whole design process. There are much less intrusive, and even elegant, systems elsewhere. As to whether lightweight structures have really been found to be inadequate have no idea, but the loadings involved (except for section terminations) are not that demanding.

The really ugly aspect is those masts that stick up well above the crossbeams, and the mounting posts that do the same, with a crude bracket to join them. I think you might get away with that more easily in Switzerland, where the landscape is much bigger, and enormously taller, than ours. I guess that's how you reduce the number of components - one length of mast whatever the height you want the contact wire. I've also seen pictures that suggest the upper mast projection supports the AT feed wire on each side.

I'm left wondering why the portals and cantilever booms at Reading are different, so apparently not to the Series 1 design. They are a bit less ugly, though no less noticeable due to being so big (in various ways). I can see that the ATFs may be routed apart through the station, but somehow I can't imagine Reading got special treatment

[Bmblbzzz]

The masts sticking up above the crossbeams: if the crossbeams are at height n metres and the masts project 1 metre above that, would it look better if the masts were height n+1 metres and the crossbeams level with their tops? I'm unsure either way, but the answer is important (sort of).

[4064ReadingAbbey]

There are some other significant differences between the the Series 1 designs being installed on the GW^▸ (Great Western) and the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Mark 3B used on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line).

To permit higher speed operation with multiple pantographs the contact wire is heavier at 120mm^2 cross section instead of 107mm^2. The contact wires are tensioned at 16.5kN (and the catenary at 14kN) - I think it's that way round! - instead of 12kN and 10kN. As a result the structures need to be a bit more massive - not only for the tension but also to cope with the additional mass and wind loading.

At the end of each wiring section there are tensioning devices. Historically the tension was applied by hanging weights and the tail wires from each section was attached to these - in a multiple track railway these tail wires have to be routed over the catenary servicing the outer tracks as the weights were attached to a vertical stanchion. This is a weak point - if the inner wires come down the flailing tail wires will almost certainly damage the catenary on the outer tracks. To avoid this occurring the tensioning devices are now a pre-loaded spring in line with its track and attached to a rigid beam running over all the tracks. Each tensioner exerts a force of some three tonnes so on a four track section the beam has to resist a horizontal bending load of some 12 tonnes applied some way from the vertical supports.

The extra height of the vertical beams is to allow for, as has been posted earlier, the auto-transformer return feed at 25kV anti-phase to be fitted having due regard to insulation allowances. As far as i understand it the 15kV 16.67Hz electification system used in Switzerland does not use an auto-transformer return. In Germany one quite often sees additional 3 phase feeds mounted on top of the verticals - and they are very high.

I do wish people would accept that the design engineers probably know what they are doing and that there is a reason for things being as they are.

If one wants an electric railway with good reliability the metal work will be chunky. It will certainly be chunkier than that used on the ECML for good reasons.

Get over it.

[JayMac]

Hear hear, 4064. Hear hear.

[TaplowGreen]

I do wish people would accept that the design engineers probably know what they are doing and that there is a reason for things being as they are.

If one wants an electric railway with good reliability the metal work will be chunky. It will certainly be chunkier than that used on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) for good reasons.

Get over it.

I think people should be able to express an opinion without being told that others know best and to "Get over it", I wonder if these same people would feel the same way should they uncover plans for a wind turbine to be built or a motorway bypass to be routed near their house?

[Red Squirrel]

Hear hear, TaplowGreen. Hear hear.

[eightf48544]

I sometimes wonder what Brunel's design for 25 Kv overhead would look like!

Just think 300 mph broad gauge trains!

[Gordon the Blue Engine]

I must admit to being surprised by the ferocity of comments on each side of this discussion.   Functionality and good visual design are not mutually exclusive, and engineers (I am one) are not necessarily the best people to come up with good visual design.

Remember that HST^▸ (High Speed Train)^s were designed by engineers, but the styling, including visual appearance, was by Sir Kenneth Grange, who was not. 

[JayMac]

I sometimes wonder what Brunel's design for 25 Kv overhead would look like!

Just think 300 mph broad gauge trains!

Contemporary accounts show much opposition to Brunel's designs, decrying their impact on the landscape. His engineering knowledge was questioned by those who said a lot but knew little.

Admittedly Brunel wasn't imnune from adding unnecessary adornment to structures, but this was often done to appease local opposition.

I'm wondering if descendents of Dr Dionysius Lardner are living in the Goring Gap. 

[ChrisB]

My impression from the comments here are that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) needs to get out and educate those affected such that they fully understand what is needed & what is design & therefore what can be changed & what can't. It seems that many are commenting without being suitably informed

[grahame]

My impression from the comments here are that NR^» (Network Rail - home page) needs to get out and educate those affected such that they fully understand what is needed & what is design & therefore what can be changed & what can't. It seems that many are commenting without being suitably informed

Your wording seems to say that people should not comment until they're fully - or rather "suitably" - informed Chris, and should not comment until they are.   I suspect that's not really the message you intended to give; if it is, then I would strongly say that this forum welcomes inputs and questions to help inform, and does not require people to be pre-fully-informed.

I would agree with you that "NR needs to get out and educate those affected such that they fully understand what is needed" (though I might suggest that "fully" isn't appropriate - people probably don't need to be spring tension and high voltage engineers!).    And to some extent NR have been doing so.  I have sympathy on both sides.   

Having been involved with the early stages of a small (25 million!) project in recent years - nothing to do with rail - you would not believe how frustratingly difficult it is to get people to input or take an interest in things years into the future at a time that it's needed to help with the planning.  A few activists will get involved and they will ask for "the earth".  Some other groups will put in zero inputs or modest requests and the voices need to be balanced.   Then there are those who say nothing, accept what's being done - just to object a bit late in the day when it's expensive or impractical to take their wishes into account.    Now - we had sought views - the Campus team had some 12 different routes to get out information and requests for input - electronic, road shows, posters, taking to groups, local newspaper ... yet still we got "didn't know" complaints and public inputs that were impractical and thus a bit frustrating.

However, having spoken for the "developer" there are indicators on the rail side that there's not enough making of information available, or accessing it can be a bit of a nuisance.   I actually got involved with rail because of 2 lines on page 70 in a 214 page document which dramatically effected the TransWilts - a consultation that was not flagged up at the station nor in the local press until after it had closed.  And looking to just this week, a meeting to inform was held several miles from a station(!), at a venue where a cup of tea cost over 5 pounds(!), and at a time which was changed from the one notifed weeks ahead at just 36 hours notice to attendees(!).  This struck me at the time as being unfortunate and perhaps putting people off - personally I went along to learn, but the net result was that a planned journey afterwards ended up with me not getting to my destination until midnight:30 the next morning, with the final leg by taxi.    So - whilst I have sympathy with the problems of informing passengers and other stakeholders, I do thing that much more could be done and it's not always gotten right at the moment.

[Bmblbzzz]

^5 for a cup of tea?  Hanging's too good for them. Drown them slowly in used tea bags, I say.