Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[eightf48544]

Can the trains reverse in the station?

[SandTEngineer]

We discussed this before (somewhere) and the answer is No.  The signalling does't allow it.  The only way would be to run through to Westbury and turnback there.

[grahame]

We discussed this before (somewhere) and the answer is No.  The signalling does't allow it.  The only way would be to run through to Westbury and turnback there.

We did indeed discuss that under a very different topic - possibly on the TransWilts CRP^▸ (Community Rail Partnership) or Frequent Poster boards, as we were speculating as to how relief could be provided for the 17:36 off Swindon which is full and standing and has a long gap in front of it.

The "Story" of reversal at Trowbridge is that it used to be possible and indeed was regularly timetabled "way back when" - indeed Trowbridge was hailed as the junction for Melksham and Devizes and only some trains carried on south to Westbury. Come 1990, and the resignalling of Westbury, the Bradford North Curve which allowed trains to run direct from Melksham to Bradford-on-Avon was removed - rumoured to be (a) because of an oversight in design or (b) because of the lack of a suitable electric supply at Bradford West junction with which to operate the points. From that time, any train coming South through Melksham wanting to head west towards Bradford-on-Avon had to go to Westbury to reverse.

A re-installation of Bradford North Curve was included in the current electrification plans - with the intent of allowing divisions around Box tunnel without reversal.   However, as a "cost cutting exercise" this plan was replaced by signalling changes that allow a reversal of trains just to the south of the existing Bradford Junction, and you'll find that fixed stop boards are now in place just over a maximum train length south of the junction crossover.    There's also a safe walkway been installed to allow crew to get from one end of the train to the other.  I would be very interested to know the cost of this walkway, compared to what it would have cost to go that bit further with bidirecton running, and then let the crew walk along their train (or the majority of it) at the platform.  It would have cost an extra minute or two running time, but would have saved the need to bustitute the TransWilts when the lines' heavy with London to Bristol expresses, which is what we have coming up in late July.   Presumably now that Network Rail is part of the public purse, we could ask to see details of this decision which seems to have been very narrow minded - looking purely at saving NR^» (Network Rail - home page) money at the expense of crippling options during the diversions; I can accept that Bradford North Curve might have been a step too far.  But installing new stop boards a few hundred yards further south surely can't have been a massive price element?

[SandTEngineer]

To reach Trowbridge station would have involved another 'right direction' signal being interlocked for the reversing movement.  Remember in the 1980s/1990s BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) was strapped for cash and all schemes were carried out to the absolute minimum requirements necessary, hence the current layout.  To change it now would probably be in the ^100,000s and there is probably no business case.

[Louis94]

For those two weeks, Trowbridge will share the distinction with Coombe of being a station where trains pull up just short of the station (not at a platform) and reverse to carry on their journey.  I can kinda understand it at Coombe ... at a county town with a population of around 30,000 and 850,000 passenger journeys per year, it seems a bit of an odd thing to be doing!

Do you count about a mile away as just short of the station then? I don't think I would...

[John R]

To change it now would probably be in the ^100,000s and there is probably no business case.

Given the period during this 6 week block when reversals will be needed is just the two weeks, I can see that might be the case. 

[grahame]

To change it now would probably be in the ^100,000s and there is probably no business case.

Given the period during this 6 week block when reversals will be needed is just the two weeks, I can see that might be the case. 

I agree -  having highlighted the word "now" in SandTEngineer's quote.   I wonder what the extra cost would have been had it been done as an alternative to "reversal outside" when that was put in?    I see your comment that it may date back 20 years, but there were works going on to put in stop boards and a walkway fairly recently - was that just some sort of upgrade work then, to a facility that was already there?

At Chippenham, there's an ability to reverse trains arriving from Thingley and it's done from time to time; a useful facility when things are up the Swanee in various ways.  The business case for "reverse facility at Trowbridge STATION" rather than "reverse in the Trowbridge Boondocks" should include such analysis.   Rather interestingly, I can envisage situations that could even be timetabled to use it ... such as the extra Bristol to Bath Metro local over which there's a bit of a ?? when it gets to Bath, and the 15:20 Cheltenham Spa to Swindon that could have become the 15:20 to Trowbridge, with the 17:54 Swindon to Cheltenham Spa could become the 17:12 from Trowbridge.

Do you count about a mile away as just short of the station then? I don't think I would...

I was borderline in choosing those words; I'm tempted to travel on some of the Westbury to Chippenham services I'm offered for 18th July (change at Bath Spa) and see what words Westbury and Trowbridge passengers use to describe it. It's the final km or so of a walk I've done from home (on footpaths, I stress, NOT on the track) and once I pass the stop board I feel I'm really getting there.

[TonyK]

Moving away from the altered timetable, there are signs of progress in the Bristol area. The first actual OHLE is now ready for all to see, if as yet unconnected to the mains, at the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) depot in Stoke Gifford:



I only had my phone as I travelled to Gloucester, but will try again with a proper camera.

By Avonmeads, there are signs of action, with a compound having been established.



The line into the fenced off bit has been spruced up, and there are a few OHLE piles, er, piled up in a corner. There are also some of the concrete troughs used for signalling. I assume both are leftovers from other works nearby. I have a photo (with bonus steam train) from the same vantage point, taken last year:



Looks like they are going through with this electrification then!

[lordgoata]

Conversely, things could grind to a halt through Goring, as we have a nice new action group just formed to stop Network Rail proceeding with the installation of the posts and cross beams as they are an eyesore (something I do not disagree with).... be interesting to see what happens, lawyers are poised to get involved which always makes for a nice delay.

I'll enquire if I can copy the info from the local magazine to the forums.

[JayMac]

Aren't the mast installations done under Network Rail's permitted development rights? No external permissions needed and thus very difficult to legally challenge.

[Electric train]

Conversely, things could grind to a halt through Goring, as we have a nice new action group just formed to stop Network Rail proceeding with the installation of the posts and cross beams as they are an eyesore (something I do not disagree with).... be interesting to see what happens, lawyers are poised to get involved which always makes for a nice delay.

I'll enquire if I can copy the info from the local magazine to the forums.

Aren't the mast installations done under Network Rail's permitted development rights? No external permissions needed and thus very difficult to legally challenge.

I am quite certain it would be under the permitted development and there would have been dialogue with the local planning authority.   Any areas of outstanding natural beauty, heritage, conservation areas will have been dealt with with the relevant body.

My guess it will not stop the work especially if NR^» (Network Rail - home page) have all the authorities / permissions in place until they get a Court Order or an Prohibition Notice

[Henry]

 Report  'Spotlight' news program this evening ;- ^Final confirmation that the region will get a brand new fleet of high speed inter-city trains has been delayed.
 
 As far as I can understand confirmation of the agreement should have been 'rubber stamped' at the end of June,
 but has been put back.  I was under the impression it was all a ''done deal''.

[Electric train]

I have been advised by a college "There have been a few technical issues encountered during construction at several locations along the Route"

[lordgoata]

Aren't the mast installations done under Network Rail's permitted development rights? No external permissions needed and thus very difficult to legally challenge.

Yes, but apparently NR^» (Network Rail - home page) haven't followed the rules, and admitted so at a meeting on 6th May with the Railway Action Group, various Councillors and John Howell MP^▸ (Member of Parliament). I have emailed the editor to request permission but not had a reply yet, so I will only quote a few small parts (Goring Gap News, July 2015, p33):

NR admitted that they had failed to consult adequately during the approvals process and would re-engage with the local authorities to remedy this... John Howell welcomed the offer from NR to hold further consultation talks with the relevant authorities.... NR's Permitted Development Rights could be legally challenged as they have not conducted the required consultation process properly and not made any changes to reduce the visual impact on the AONB^▸ (Areas Of Natural Beauty)

Last month when the initial article was published there was something in there about NR saying they would have different masts through the AONB which would lessen the impact (thinner, painted green etc), but then later admitted they had no intention of now doing so - unfortunately I don't have that edition of the magazine now to refer to.

[BerkshireBugsy]

I traveled from Thatcham to Paddington last week and couldn't notice much progress on the electrification project. Is this because work is currently focusing on the Bath area?

I'm sure it will all come together but progress does seem to be slow