Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Thatcham Crossing]

Ever so slightly tongue in cheek there I suspect (and hope) BB  

[ChrisB]

As for DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), they don't even have plans for the younger IC225 sets on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) after IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), so I very much doubt they have plans for IC125s.

Please don't quote facts when you can't possibly know!

Scotrail will have contracted for certain HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train), not just 'any' HSTs. I understand they have contracted those being released by FGW^▸ (First Great Western), not East Coast? Possibly even from a different ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)?

And quote your sources re the DfT and having plans for rolling stock, or couch your statement differently This is likely *your opinion*, not the DfT's. My bet is that they *do* have plans for all stock being released, but it may not be ever set in stone & can be changed.

[ChrisB]

ScotRail will probably want to get its hands on whichever IC125s are released first, since the refurbishment they have planned before the trains enter service is MAJOR. As for DfT^» (Department for Transport - about), they don't even have plans for the younger IC225 sets on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) after IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), so I very much doubt they have plans for IC125s. My opinion is that planning a new fleet without having plans for the existing assets is daft, but that's the DfT and the fragmented rail industy for you.

It's not up to the DfT what they do with the existing assets. They'll say it's for the owners to decide extended or new leases.

Hmm - not sure about that. Yes, if they want to hold onto them, but if one of the options offered to East Coast was that they took IEPs in exchange for the 225s, then the DfT will have alternative plans.

For example, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) can only cascade the turbos with the DfTs approval - if the DfT thought they'd (for example) better off being deployed in place of Northern's Pacers, then that's what would happen....Of course, in 'agreement' with (read money changing hands, and other stock options) FGW

The DfT will say they don't micro-manage the stock, but I reckon otherwise. Nothing happens stock-wise without the DfTs agreement

[Rhydgaled]

Please don't quote facts when you can't possibly know!

Scotrail will have contracted for certain HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train), not just 'any' HSTs. I understand they have contracted those being released by FGW^▸ (First Great Western), not East Coast? Possibly even from a different ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about)?

I did say 'probably'. It was an uninformed guess and perhaps I should have made that clearer. Sorry. You make a good point that ScotRail may have already a committed deal with a ROSCO, which I didn't think of.

And quote your sources re the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and having plans for rolling stock, or couch your statement differently This is likely *your opinion*, not the DfT's. My bet is that they *do* have plans for all stock being released, but it may not be ever set in stone & can be changed.

I'm sure I have a letter somewhere that states that the DfT's view on the future of the existing stock is a matter for the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) and ROSCOs. As I stated in my post, I personally think that is a very silly view for the DfT to take given that they mandated use of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) on GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line).

[ChrisB]

The only recent occurance of TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) beating the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to reallocations was the TPE^▸ (Trans Pennine Express) loss of the 17x's to Chiltern. But then theyu failed by finding TPE a solution.....

[Electric train]

Had a little bit of inside info today,

Not all of the delay is down to NR^» (Network Rail - home page) some of it is down to DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) 

Boundary Rd bridge in Newbury DfT have not approved the awarded the contract for this replacement.

Oxford Stn looks like 2016 or even 2017 before DfT get around to this rebuild

Plus there are some other sensitive issues on the route down to DfT that I was not made fully privy too.

Looks like a playground bundle coming up soon

[ray951]

Electric train said "Oxford Stn looks like 2016 or even 2017 before DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) get around to this rebuild."

I travel between Didcot and Oxford everyday and have noticed that the holes have been dug and a lost of piles have been added between Didcot and Kennington Junc. But between Kennington Junc and Oxford no visible work for electrification has taken place, of course it could be that they are undertaking the work in stages but I wonder if they haven't started because of all the changes that are planned at Oxford station. They also don't appear to have done any work on the 3 footbridges between Kennington Junc and Oxford assuming of course that they need to be raised.

Does anybody know what the blue 'crash-like' barriers that are attached to the track and appear next to the piles are for? Lots of these have appeared between Didcot and Oxford usually adjacent to the piles but not always.

In other developments they still appear to laying the cable from Didcot Power station to the feedin substation at Foxhall Junction and although they have built the road to the substation it doesn't look as if any building has taken place yet.

The good news is that Basil Hill Road bridge in Didcot  has just reopened and the temporary footbridge from Didcot Parkway to the car park is almost complete so that the permanent footbridge can be replaced/raised.

[Electric train]

Does anybody know what the blue 'crash-like' barriers that are attached to the track and appear next to the piles are for? Lots of these have appeared between Didcot and Oxford usually adjacent to the piles but not always.

The blue fencing provides a "Green Fenced Zone" for working it saves the need for a look out when you are working behind it although a Controller of Site Safety is still needed

In other developments they still appear to laying the cable from Didcot Power station to the feedin substation at Foxhall Junction and although they have built the road to the substation it doesn't look as if any building has taken place yet.

You'll be amazed, astonished, bemused when you do see what is going to go on site     The switchgear is one of the last items to arrive on site, then there will be a lot of site wiring and testing and finally commissioned into service.

[ellendune]

My opinion is that planning a new fleet without having plans for the existing assets is daft, but that's the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and the fragmented rail industy for you.

Quite apart from the points made by others your argument would carry more weight if the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) weren't already nearly 40 years old.  Why would they need to plan a future for life expired stock?

The March edition of Modern Railways is reporting that DfT have asked FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to seek a price for an additional order of IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) for the West of England services. It says that cascading Midland class 222 DEMUs^▸ (Diesel Electric Multiple Unit) has been ruled out due to the delays to Midland electrification and the use of life extended HSTs has been ruled out. 

[TonyK]

The blue fencing provides a "Green Fenced Zone" for working it saves the need for a look out when you are working behind it although a Controller of Site Safety is still needed

Blue - the new green, eh?

This will not be the first time that we have had brand spanking new kit waiting for the infrastructure to catch up. The new order for IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), if confirmed, shows either that things have changed since the first order was placed, or it was underestimated in the first place. Hopefully, we'll get them at a decent price still. Why is FGW^▸ (First Great Western) being asked to to the dealing, though, rather than DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)?

[ellendune]

Why is FGW^▸ (First Great Western) being asked to to the dealing, though, rather than DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)?

As they keep saying they do not deal in rolling stock.

[ellendune]

Despite the assertion that DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) do not plan rolling stock allocation, Modern Railways is reporting that DfT is coming up with a rolling stock cascade plan.  This is said to include transfer of 387/1 s to FGW^▸ (First Great Western).  The first units with transfer in 2016 with the rest to follow in 2018.  They also suggest that the remaining 365 sets not being retained by Govia will also transfer to FGW for use on the stopping services out of Paddington. 

[TonyK]

BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) West report today that the hold-up is because of power supply problems.

Hmm...

[Rhydgaled]

My opinion is that planning a new fleet without having plans for the existing assets is daft, but that's the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) and the fragmented rail industy for you.

Quite apart from the points made by others your argument would carry more weight if the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) weren't already nearly 40 years old.  Why would they need to plan a future for life expired stock?

The IC125s may be nearly 40, but the IC225s aren't.

he March edition of Modern Railways is reporting that DfT have asked FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to seek a price for an additional order of IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) for the West of England services. It says that cascading Midland class 222 DEMUs^▸ (Diesel Electric Multiple Unit) has been ruled out due to the delays to Midland electrification and the use of life extended HSTs has been ruled out.

Sounds like somebody has forgotten what was said by (if I recall correctly) by First Great Western's MD in Modern Railways some time ago. He ruled out 222s back then saying something like 'passengers do not like the cramped interiors and underfloor diesel engines of those trains'. That ought to rule out IEP too.

[Red Squirrel]

...Blue - the new green, eh?

May I recommend this YouTube video?