Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[Electric train]

Many moons ago, back in 1987, I entered a Blue Peter competition to do with the railways. I forget exactly what it was, I think it was a rail safety campaign, but that may have been a different one. Anyway, I came runner up and had a trip to London in the cab of a 125 etc and was given a load of model railway stuff etc. Today I found one of the other gifts, a chunk of copper used for the electrification of the mainline between London, Leeds & Edinburgh. I thought it quite interesting that its only taken almost 30 years to get around to doing the Great Western Mainline!

I joined the BRB^‡(resolve) HQ^▸ (Headquarters) DM&EE Electrification Group which bizarrely was based in Tournament Hse Paddington  in 1990 the plans for both the then Western Region and the Midland Region line to Derby and Sheffield were quite advanced, all the National Grid intakes and locations for track section cabins etc were all mapped out, all the structures that needed replacing / modifying etc were all known.

The Electrification Groups plan was to roll onto either the Midland or the Western through the 1990 the view was the HSDT^▸ (Original name for High Speed Train)'s would be life expired in 2000 as they were after all only a temporary stop gap 

What caused the delay .......................... John Major

[onthecushions]

I joined the BRB^‡(resolve) HQ^▸ (Headquarters) DM&EE Electrification Group which bizarrely was based in Tournament Hse Paddington  in 1990 the plans for both the then Western Region and the Midland Region line to Derby and Sheffield were quite advanced, all the National Grid intakes and locations for track section cabins etc were all mapped out, all the structures that needed replacing / modifying etc were all known.

The Electrification Groups plan was to roll onto either the Midland or the Western through the 1990 the view was the HSDT^▸ (Original name for High Speed Train)'s would be life expired in 2000 as they were after all only a temporary stop gap 

What caused the delay .......................... John Major

I imagine that the 1990 design was much as the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line), with Mk3b BT OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE"), 132kV feeder stations with 3 TSC's between. How much has the design changed with 25 years passing?

I think the problem was UK^▸ (United Kingdom) economic failure thanks to the Lawson "boom" rather than John Major, personally.

OTC

[Electric train]

I joined the BRB^‡(resolve) HQ^▸ (Headquarters) DM&EE Electrification Group which bizarrely was based in Tournament Hse Paddington  in 1990 the plans for both the then Western Region and the Midland Region line to Derby and Sheffield were quite advanced, all the National Grid intakes and locations for track section cabins etc were all mapped out, all the structures that needed replacing / modifying etc were all known.

The Electrification Groups plan was to roll onto either the Midland or the Western through the 1990 the view was the HSDT^▸ (Original name for High Speed Train)'s would be life expired in 2000 as they were after all only a temporary stop gap 


What caused the delay .......................... John Major

I imagine that the 1990 design was much as the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line), with Mk3b BT OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE"), 132kV feeder stations with 3 TSC's between. How much has the design changed with 25 years passing?

Was BT with RC and FS ITSC's MPTSC's;  now its AT with ATF and there are ATFS and MPATS^▸ (Mid Point Auto Transformer Site - electrification) which is 50kV although the trains see 25kV ............ still 50Hz though

I think the problem was UK^▸ (United Kingdom) economic failure thanks to the Lawson "boom" rather than John Major, personally.

OTC

Personally I blame Major he was the Prime Minister that privatised the Railways formed Railtrack and the byzantine contracting of maintenance and the dog eat dog TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) franchising ........... Major make Beeching look like a novice

[JayMac]

Was BT with RC and FS ITSC's MPTSC's;  now its AT with ATF and there are ATFS and MPATS^▸ (Mid Point Auto Transformer Site - electrification) which is 50kV although the trains see 25kV ............ still 50Hz though

Huh? Please can we have the abbreviations explained for that lot. Some of us aren't electrical engineers. 

[ellendune]

I am not an electrical engineer but I would guess AT is Auto Transformer.

[BerkshireBugsy]

Was BT with RC and FS ITSC's MPTSC's;  now its AT with ATF and there are ATFS and MPATS^▸ (Mid Point Auto Transformer Site - electrification) which is 50kV although the trains see 25kV ............ still 50Hz though

Huh? Please can we have the abbreviations explained for that lot. Some of us aren't electrical engineers. 

Thanks @BNM - i'm sure if you are in the know its obvious!

[paul7575]

Let's have a go, as a layman in these matters.  It's a bit like one of those quizzes but without photos...

BT = Booster Transformer

RC = Return Conductor (a cable which parallels the rails, nominally at 0 Volts)

FS = Feeder Station

ITSC = Intermediate Track Sectioning Cabin  (divides the OHLE into switchable sections)

MPTSC  = Mid Point Track Sectioning Cabin

AT = Auto Transformer

ATF = Auto Transformer Feeder (a 25 kV cable which is anti phase to the catenary - hence 50 kV transmission) 

ATFS = Auto Transformer Feeder Section

MPATS^▸ (Mid Point Auto Transformer Site - electrification) = Mid Point Autotransformer Section

Paul

[Red Squirrel]

........... Major make Beeching look like a novice

That's an interesting statement; probably worth a topic in its own right! Both made fundamental and highly-controversial changes which completely changed the way people thought about railways for the next twenty years. Both are widely misunderstood. Who knows what state the railways would be in now if neither had put their oar in?

[trainer]

........... Major make Beeching look like a novice

 Who knows what state the railways would be in now if neither had put their oar in?

I've often thought that the Somerset and Dorset Joint and the Strawberry Line would have been an electrified country lines as in Switzerland. But then I have a better grasp of fairy tales than economics. 

[Rhydgaled]

........... Major make Beeching look like a novice

That's an interesting statement; probably worth a topic in its own right! Both made fundamental and highly-controversial changes which completely changed the way people thought about railways for the next twenty years. Both are widely misunderstood. Who knows what state the railways would be in now if neither had put their oar in?

Since finding out about a certain Mr Marples, my opinion of Dr Beeching is that he was really a pawn and Mr Marples was the real villian. I think I know even less about Mr Major than the other two, but my perception of him in terms of railways is probably somewhere between the Marples and Beeching.

[Red Squirrel]

........... Major make Beeching look like a novice

That's an interesting statement; probably worth a topic in its own right! Both made fundamental and highly-controversial changes which completely changed the way people thought about railways for the next twenty years. Both are widely misunderstood. Who knows what state the railways would be in now if neither had put their oar in?

Since finding out about a certain Mr Marples, my opinion of Dr Beeching is that he was really a pawn and Mr Marples was the real villian. I think I know even less about Mr Major than the other two, but my perception of him in terms of railways is probably somewhere between the Marples and Beeching.

But Castle closed twice as many miles of track as Marples, and did so after Labour came to power promising to halt the Beeching cuts! Since Major, to the probable disappointment of headline writers, there have been no 'major' closures - rather the opposite.

[ChrisB]

But Castle closed twice as many miles of track as Marples, and did so after Labour came to power promising to halt the Beeching cuts!

Strange how everyone 'conveniently' continues to forget that.

[4064ReadingAbbey]

Since finding out about a certain Mr Marples, my opinion of Dr Beeching is that he was really a pawn and Mr Marples was the real villian. I think I know even less about Mr Major than the other two, but my perception of him in terms of railways is probably somewhere between the Marples and Beeching.

This view of Marples is common - but inaccurate. He was admittedly a rogue but if Marples hadn't been Minister of Transport then someone else would have been and very similar changes would have taken place. It was not just Marples who thought cars were the future. Most people did so too - which is why they bought cars. The number of cars on the road doubled in just 10 years -  from 4.9 million in 1960 to 9.97 million in 1970 - so it's hardly surprising that there was pressure for new or re-built roads.

This demand had nothing whatsoever to do with personalities or politics and everything to do with car manufacturers gaining the cost savings of larger production volumes. And this increase in the number of cars played merry hell with passenger numbers, especially on the branch lines and shorter distance main line journeys.

Trains were perceived to be, and often were, old-fashioned and dirty. Many people's memories were still coloured by horrendous journeys during the war or going on holiday - one summer Saturday in 1957 some 80 long distance trains ran through Newton Abbot on their way west and all of them were more than TWO HOURS late. People decided never to use the train again. And they told their friends. Steam traction was still being used and passengers got smuts in their eyes and dirty shirts. Many coaches were pre-war and frequently taps didn't work or the sliding windows jammed. The upholstery was often caked in dust and dirt.

Stations were grimy places - some of them hadn't seen a paint brush since, ooh, 1938. Even the new diesel locomotives were covered in dirt and oil after a few weeks use and scarely seemed a good advertisement for the Modernisation Plan. They also kept breaking down - including one embarrassing time on the Royal Train.

Cars were clean - and yours. They went when you wanted, where you wanted and on the route you wanted. You never 'missed' your car and it wasn't necessary to get a bus to the station first.

People voted against the railway. The closures had little or nothing to do with Marples' business interests or personality, but everything to do with a fall in demand and a collapse in receipts.

And Beeching was no pawn, he was a director of Imperial Chemical Industries.




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN. 

[stuving]

There was a Paul Clifton report on tonight's South Today of a 1-year delay to the GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification programme, which is also covered in this from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

24 February 2015
Last updated at 17:41
Great Western electrification scheme 'one year behind schedule'

The job is bigger and harder than expected, but also dramatically more expensive, sources say

Plans to modernise railways in the Thames Valley are a year behind schedule after they proved to be "dramatically more expensive" than first thought.

The predicted cost to transform the old Great Western route has climbed from ^640m to ^1.74bn, the BBC has learned.

Senior industry executives have said the plans to complete the work by the end of 2016 will not be met.

Network Rail said work was "progressing well" but schedules could change.

Overhead wires need to be fitted between Reading and Oxford so that modern trains can run on the line and carry more passengers, ease overcrowding, and improve rail times.

New trains are being shipped from Japan, with the first due to arrive in two weeks.

But they cannot be tested on the Great Western line because the power supply is not in place.

Sources have told the BBC the job is bigger and harder than expected, but also dramatically more expensive.

Paul Clifton, BBC South transport correspondent
The first of a new fleet of electric trains is on its way from a factory in Japan, raising the prospect of brand new trains standing idle in sidings.

Officially, Network Rail is still aiming for the wires to be working late next year. But note the careful choice of language. "Aiming for" is not the same as promising.

I've now been told by four separate sources the target will not be met.

One told me the project was in complete disarray and the wires will not be up until 2017.

And when are the SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)) due to all be ready?

[TonyK]

There was a Paul Clifton report on tonight's South Today of a 1-year delay to the GW^▸ (Great Western) electrification programme, which is also covered in this from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

24 February 2015
Last updated at 17:41
Great Western electrification scheme 'one year behind schedule'

The job is bigger and harder than expected, but also dramatically more expensive, sources say

Plans to modernise railways in the Thames Valley are a year behind schedule after they proved to be "dramatically more expensive" than first thought.

The predicted cost to transform the old Great Western route has climbed from ^640m to ^1.74bn, the BBC has learned.

Senior industry executives have said the plans to complete the work by the end of 2016 will not be met.

And when are the SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)) due to all be ready?

There's a shock, then. An electric shock?