Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

Crossrail is being gauged for double deck trains

The Crossrail tunnels are not being initially fitted out for double deck trains, which i why I wrote what I did.  They are built to allow UIC/TSI GB^▸ (Great Britain) gauge but only with major modifications.  But that is pretty much academic unless they also completely rebuild the existing Heathrow tunnels, and the Connaught tunnel to North Woolwich, which are not big enough.  Are there any plans for that - I don't think so.

I believed from online sources that they were just re-registering the existing GW^▸ (Great Western) OHLE to allow for 125 mph running with two pans up, but that this is a requirement of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)(GW), not Crossrail.  So that doesn't necessarily imply it's part of a covert conversion of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) to allow for double decker trains.   Are any of the GWML bridge works providing for anything beyond W10/W12 plus electrification clearance?  Are there any  corresponding gauge changes planned between Stratford and Shenfield, which is already undergoing an electrification update?

Paul

[Network SouthEast]

I believed from online sources that they were just re-registering the existing GW^▸ (Great Western) OHLE to allow for 125 mph running with two pans up, but that this is a requirement of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)(GW), not Crossrail. 

The DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) documentation says that OHLE will be capable of 125mph running on the relief lines, but 140mph on the fast lines. There's no actual plan at the moment to see 140mph running, but it is nice to see that provision is being made for it.

[IndustryInsider]

Possible extensions of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification to either Bedwyn, Westbury or Bath via Bradford-Upon-Avon are being considered by the DfT.  Interesting to hear that the options are being officially considered.  Bedwyn would be logical in my opinion, but I'm not so sure about further afield - though electric hauled stone trains are an interesting idea!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20399057

[anthony215]

Well if they can wire via Bradford on Avon then maybe they could wire between Westbury & Southampton that would allow the Cardiff - Portsmouth service to be worked by emu's.

Besides  maybe they should wire via Melksham  as well (That should please a few members ofn this forum)

[IndustryInsider]

Well if they can wire via Bradford on Avon then maybe they could wire between Westbury & Southampton that would allow the Cardiff - Portsmouth service to be worked by emu's.

Besides  maybe they should wire via Melksham  as well (That should please a few members ofn this forum)

I think that's one of the problems, isn't it?  Whenever possible extensions are mentioned, there's always a 'well, if they're going to do that, they might as well do that as well' argument for adjoining sections of track!  Certainly having the route from Newbury via Westbury to Bath electrified does provide for a useful diversionary route which is arguably more important now with the electrification extending to Swansea meaning fewer bi-mode IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)'s will be available to cover such routes at times of engineering or other service disruption.

[anthony215]

I agree with what you are saying Industryinsider and if they include wiring the line through Melksham I am sure our members living in the area would be quite pleased (especially if they get a more regular rail service)

Also weren't they putting something to go with the GW^▸ (Great Western) power suppply in Melksham so could that perhaps also be another reason?

One final point I woul like to make is my concern about Network Rail taking on too much work especially since  the current proposals already given the go ahead are quiete extensive unlless Network Rail and the Government know something we dont (3rd electrification Factory train perhaps?)

The whole extra electrostars for Southern have also got me thinking something is up

[Electric train]

Also weren't they putting something to go with the GW^▸ (Great Western) power suppply in Melksham so could that perhaps also be another reason?

One of the principle intakes from the TNO^▸ (Transmission Network Operator) (Transition Network Operator aka National Grid).  One of the weakness in system currently planed is in the Reading area keeping the depot alive when the Auto Transformer system feed from Kensal Green or Didcot is not available, also the Newbury leg is vulnerable as it is a stub end feed extending the wires via Westbury to the Melksham area would allow for a feed from there.

One final point I woul like to make is my concern about Network Rail taking on too much work especially since  the current proposals already given the go ahead are quiete extensive unlless Network Rail and the Government know something we dont (3rd electrification Factory train perhaps?)

One of the most critical resources is the amount of trained staff to construct, test and commission an AC electrified railway something which Network Rail and its contractors are acutely aware of

[Western Explorer]

Picking up the double deck debate...
Low platforms on the continent mean you can  have a lower saloon with entrance doors between the bogies and gangways on the upper deck only. That's not really feasible with the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) platform height. Apart from that station dwell times would be significantly increased, which is not a good idea if you want to put 24tph through the central section.

[IndustryInsider]

I think, with the possible exception of HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)), there will be no double-deck trains operating on the National Rail network any time soon. 

So no chance of anything like this once again running on UK^▸ (United Kingdom) tracks! http://www.yellins.co.uk/transporthistory/rail/ddtrain.html

[Western Explorer]

I remember the 4DDs. There was one coach standing outside Chart Leacon for a long time. The forced ventillation didn't work very well and they were very stuffy when full. And it took an age for people to clamber down the steps from the upper compartments.

[paul7575]

One final point I woul like to make is my concern about Network Rail taking on too much work especially since  the current proposals already given the go ahead are quiete extensive unlless Network Rail and the Government know something we dont (3rd electrification Factory train perhaps?)

They'd have to build a second HOOP train first, and NR^» (Network Rail - home page) haven't ever reported ordering a second train yet.  Given the fanfare surrounding the single train that is on order, you'd expect a second one would be publicised?

This article is one of many that refers to a single HOOP train: 

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/single-view/view/windhoff-to-build-network-rails-electrification-factory-train.html

Paul

[onthecushions]

One of the principle intakes from the TNO^▸ (Transmission Network Operator) (Transition Network Operator aka National Grid).  One of the weakness in system currently planed is in the Reading area keeping the depot alive when the Auto Transformer system feed from Kensal Green or Didcot is not available, also the Newbury leg is vulnerable as it is a stub end feed extending the wires via Westbury to the Melksham area would allow for a feed from there.

Isn't the Super-Grid electricity sub-station at Bramley Hants now to have a traction Grid Supply Point, with the Nuneaton - Soton wiring?

OTC

[Electric train]

One of the principle intakes from the TNO^▸ (Transmission Network Operator) (Transition Network Operator aka National Grid).  One of the weakness in system currently planed is in the Reading area keeping the depot alive when the Auto Transformer system feed from Kensal Green or Didcot is not available, also the Newbury leg is vulnerable as it is a stub end feed extending the wires via Westbury to the Melksham area would allow for a feed from there.

Isn't the Super-Grid electricity sub-station at Bramley Hants now to have a traction Grid Supply Point, with the Nuneaton - Soton wiring?

OTC

I believe so, this will still leave Newbury as a stub end feed west from Southcote Jcn

[grandsire]

Possible extensions of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification to either Bedwyn, Westbury or Bath via Bradford-Upon-Avon are being considered by the DfT.  Interesting to hear that the options are being officially considered.  Bedwyn would be logical in my opinion, but I'm not so sure about further afield - though electric hauled stone trains are an interesting idea!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-20399057

I expect its already been covered in the previous 50+ pages of this thread, but isn't the stopping of electrification at Newbury something to do with boundaries between signalling centres?

[paul7575]

I expect its already been covered in the previous 50+ pages of this thread, but isn't the stopping of electrification at Newbury something to do with boundaries between signalling centres?

Not likely.  By the time electrification is underway nearly everything will be signalled from Didcot anyway (Thames Valley Signalling Centre).  The main point about electrification boundaries is that they will be designed to fit the intended post electrification timetable, whatever that happens to be, not the current timetable. 

As an example, there are regular proposals that the boundary must be at Bedwyn - but only because that is currently the place where many DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) services terminate.  Once IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) is introduced Bedwyn might no longer have terminating trains at all, just calls in regular additional IEP semi-fasts.

Whatever solution people have in mind is probably already suggested somewhere in the GW^▸ (Great Western) RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy), the GW ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender), or the London and SE RUS; and however it ends up it's more likely to be different than stay the same...

Paul