Great Western Main Line electrification - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

If they do decide to order some pendolino's they at least have much bigger windows and a less cramped interior.

That doesn't make sense.  Surely what you meant was IF they ordered Pendolinos they would need to have bigger windows and a less cramped interior then existing.  But to do that they couldn't have a tilt profile, and then they wouldn't be Pendolinos - they'd just be an Alstom 125 mph EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)...

Paul

[anthony215]

Yes that is what I mean't, I didn't spot that error.


I have noticed that part of the article has been taken down and is now only talking  about pendolino's on the east coast mainline.

[paul7575]

Quite a major change isn't it - no mention of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) at all now.  For them to change it that quickly is a fair sign that the author must have 'got it a bit wrong'.  Some might say made it up. 

Paul

[IndustryInsider]

Meanwhile, there's still no sign of any work on the bridge at South Stoke, between Cholsey and Goring that has had a temporary bridge installed next to it for well over a year now and in the process mystified Paul and myself!

To correct myself there as there's clearly a lot of activity there now - including a line marking on the bridge in spray paint where presumably the original brickwork will remain below, with a new concrete flat span stuck onto the top in the same style as the two bridges east of Didcot and the one at Hinksey, south of Oxford.

[paul7575]

It seems to me that they must have discovered that track lowering could deal with W10 gauge fairly late in the day, subsequent to setting up the worksite,  but immediately worked out that electrification clearance couldn't be achieved as well.

So, the $64000 question.  Can they really re-use a planning application for gauge clearance to rebuild a bridge for electrification...

Paul

[anthony215]

Found the story on another website:

http://thecomfytrain.co.uk/2011/12/09/alstom-%e2%80%98in-talks%e2%80%99-to-construct-pendolinos-for-intercity-express-programme/

As someone has said with all the problems with the euro whats to stop Hitachi changing their minds and walking away.

Also with the Governemnt wanting to drive down cost's and the non tilt Pendolino's costing far less than the bi-mode IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)  then I think I can guess which option the  DFT^▸ (Department for Transport) would take.

[Electric train]

There is little to be gained in speed on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) by using Pendolino's even on the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) there is not as much gain as there was on the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line).  If they are used on the ECML a device called a damper (electrical suppressor) was fitted on the WCML about every 10 miles before the Pendolino's started operation unless the new build Pendolino's are fitted with these the ECML will need them and possibly the GWML.

[Rhydgaled]

Given that alot of GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) and ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) are straight enough for 125/140mph running anyway I can't see tilting Pendolinos being much use with East Coast or Great Western apart from perhaps Newcastle - Edinbrough. For tilt to be useful on Great Western, you'd probablly have to electrify to Plymouth (via Westbury) which as a wild guess might actually cut journey times significantly.

Basicly though, once you've paid the extra for a train that tilts, wouldn't a plain-electric, 23m carriage length, version of IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) be cheaper and give you basicly the same result?

And why does that article say a replacment for East Coast's Intercity 225s is needed in the next few years? Surely, since they have decided they can make Intercity 125s disability compliant (including power doors) and refurbish them so they go on until they are 60 years old, they can make class 91s and mark 4s go on until at least 2040, if not 2050. That should also be cheaper than new trains and, since mark 4s are probablly pretty close to disabililty compliance anyway, cheaper than the necessary Intercity 125 life-extension (of course they could just exempt 125s from having to have power doors to reduce life-extension costs).

[woody]

Pendelinos come in a non tilt version as well.The Polish operator PKP Intercity, in charge of long distance passenger transport, has awarded Alstom a contract worth ^665 million to supply 20 New Pendolino non titing high speed trains.
http://www.rail.co/2011/05/31/alstom-to-supply-20-new-pendolino-trains-for-pkp-intercity/
The new Pendolino trains come in two versions. Trains with a bodyshell width of 2,830mm are suitable for UIC track (1,400mm).Trains with a bodyshell width of 3,200mm are manufactured for wide tracks (1,500mm).Also the new Pendolino trains are claimed to be 95% recyclable. The electric brake systems save up to 8% of energy consumed. Alstom says about 97% of the power is recycled and fed back into the catenary system.Compared to IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) you get more train for your bucks and therefore can justify wiring up enough miles to kill that shortsighted IEP Bi-mode train stone dead before we live to regret it.

[anthony215]

The new Pendolinos' proposed for the Great western and East coast routes are likely to have  the same traction equipment as the class 390's however they will have similar bodywork to the class 180's.

as for the class 91's I am sure 1 problems is getting the parts for them, as it would cost a lot of money to overhaul/re-build them.

[Rhydgaled]

The new Pendolinos' proposed for the Great western and East coast routes are likely to have  the same traction equipment as the class 390's however they will have similar bodywork to the class 180's.

If the trains offered have class 180 bodywork, wouldn't they be considered part of the Cordia family rather than Pendolino? Anyway, an EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) version of the class 180, if cheaper than an EMU version of Hitachi's IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.), does sound like a good idea. If so, I hope they design a nicer looking nose for the train than the 180 one though, any chance of a 180 with a Voyager-like front end design?

as for the class 91's I am sure 1 problems is getting the parts for them, as it would cost a lot of money to overhaul/re-build them.

Well, even an overhall shouldn't be needed for a while should it? Wasn't the last major refurb (delta 91) done by GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) alongside the Mallard refurb for the coaches, so not that long ago? When it comes to a refurb, wouldn't you be upgrading components (or perhaps totally changing the interal workings, like class 43s from Valenta engines to MTUs^▸ (Motor Traction Unit)) so spare parts should then be easier to source than now.

[Btline]

They should use tilt. It would be useful North of Northallerton and on the B&H^▸ (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury)/Devon/Cornwall. Obviously, more electrification would be needed. But once we have the electrification trains/teams we should aspire to roll out a programme of mainline electrification.

[paul7575]

Found the story on another website:

http://thecomfytrain.co.uk/2011/12/09/alstom-%e2%80%98in-talks%e2%80%99-to-construct-pendolinos-for-intercity-express-programme/

But that's just a direct copy of the original story that was pulled from rail.co, so it too no longer has any credibility.  So let's not jump to any conclusions...

Paul

[woody]

These interesting comments on the matter from Tony Miles on the Google uk rail forum (Dec 10 10.41pm) https://groups.google.com/group/uk.railway/browse_thread/thread/3bd8416456b134c9/1e3652b0f7cc28d1?hl=en&

[paul7575]

Seems to require a log in now - I'm sure you used to be able to browse without an account though...

Paul