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grandsire
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« on: July 20, 2009, 21:23:31 » |
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Travelled from Clifton Downs to BTM▸ last week, sat in the front carriage. Conductor never reached that carriage at all and at BTM I went back and asked him for a ticket. He said he doesn;t have time between stations to get to the front carriage, and I could/should now get my ticket at the BTM barrier. He also suggested I sat in th back carriage on a future occasion if I needed a ticket. Which I guess is fine, and presumably the fact that BTM has ticket barriers mean not much revenue is lost-unless you're travelling further!
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JayMac
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2009, 21:48:00 » |
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Travelled from Clifton Downs to BTM▸ last week, sat in the front carriage. Conductor never reached that carriage at all and at BTM I went back and asked him for a ticket. He said he doesn;t have time between stations to get to the front carriage, and I could/should now get my ticket at the BTM barrier. He also suggested I sat in th back carriage on a future occasion if I needed a ticket. Which I guess is fine, and presumably the fact that BTM has ticket barriers mean not much revenue is lost-unless you're travelling further!
This is a perennial problem for passengers travelling into BRI» from the SVB line. NRCoC▸ is a little vague on this issue. Do you go to the gateline to buy your ticket? Do you board your next train out from BRI and buy your ticket then? I have actually got all the way to Birmingham New Street from Shirehampton on the SVB line before buying a ticket. In the peak it is nigh on impossible to make an advertised connection through BRI by either buying a ticket at the gateline or going through to purchase it at the ticket windows. I've yet to have any problems buying tickets on the second train I need to complete my journey when I tell the Guard/Conductor/ TM‡ that I started my journey at an unmanned station on the SVB line. |
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"A clear conscience laughs at a false accusation."
"Treat everyone the same until you find out they're an idiot."
"Moral indignation is a technique used to endow the idiot with dignity."
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smithy
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2009, 22:20:14 » |
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on most peak SVB trains there is normally an ATE who will stay towards front of train catching the passengers the guard cannot.
I have had similar but on different line,got on a busy train from nailsea machine was broken there,did not have time at BTM▸ before my XC▸ train managed to get to bournville in B'ham without having ticket sold/checked.
did not intentionally fare evade but did not cost me a thing because i never saw any train crew.
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readytostart
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2009, 16:48:34 » |
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on most peak SVB trains there is normally an ATE who will stay towards front of train catching the passengers the guard cannot.
I have had similar but on different line,got on a busy train from nailsea machine was broken there,did not have time at BTM▸ before my XC▸ train managed to get to bournville in B'ham without having ticket sold/checked.
did not intentionally fare evade but did not cost me a thing because i never saw any train crew.
You mean you didn't go to the booking office at your destination and buy your ticket there?  At ScotRail we're crying out for extra on-train staff on the busy off peak trains and at weekends and despite there being more revenue walking away than it'd cost to provide extra staff, the company stick to their franchise obligations and nothing more. |
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Tim
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2009, 17:21:32 » |
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One wonders how much of an impact the effciency of ticket checking and selling has on passenger numbers.
Small unmanned stations where on board checks are difficult must be reporting lower use then is actually the case, which undermines their viability.
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2009, 18:39:36 » |
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That's exactly the potential problem that's been raised before on this forum, Tim: for example, see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3137.msg36081#msg36081 |
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William Huskisson MP▸ was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830. Many more have died in the same way since then. Don't take a chance: stop, look, listen.
"Level crossings are safe, unless they are used in an unsafe manner." Discuss.
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2009, 19:47:08 » |
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The NRCoC▸ say that if you board at an unstaffed station you much purchase a ticket at the first reasonable opportunity. I've been on early morning SVB line trains where even with a conductor and assistant ticket examiner they can't keep up, and it's not for want of trying because the two of then are working their socks off issuing tickets. The situation isn't helped by the fact that on the 143s the conductor can only release the doors from the very front or very back, so generally they only make it a little way into the train before running back to the door controls panel. Condition 3 in full: 3. Where the full range of tickets is not available
If you cannot buy an appropriate ticket for the journey you want to make because
the range of tickets that is available at the station from which you intend to start
your journey is restricted, you must buy a ticket or Permit to Travel before you travel
that entitles you to make at least part of the journey. Then you must, as soon as is
reasonably practicable, buy an appropriate ticket to complete your journey. In these
circumstances, you only need to pay the fare that you would have paid if you had
bought a ticket immediately before your journey. The price you will have to pay will
be reduced by the amount paid for the ticket or Permit to Travel. The way I read that, if you board at an unstaffed station where there are no tickets available and the conductor is too busy to sell you a ticket, you would be within your rights to board a connecting train at Temple Meads without a ticket if there was insufficient time and it was "not reasonably practicable" to purchase one. If you did encounter a member of staff who disagreed I think condition 3 would give you very strong grounds for an appeal, since the NRCoC are sacrosanct. |
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2009, 23:09:40 » |
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And As i've said before - if you have half a brain - barriers dont help you can fool the barriers - even if WOS» was barriered I could do Slough to burnham - get on train - Pershore to WOS (engineering excepted) Compare that to 100+ without discount for a return.......... Hell - tonight I tried to go through the barrier at slough with my return - rejected by the barrier - just wandered through the manned gate - no one asked for my YP card to be visible - what is the point On an aside note: I've been doing an experiment for the last year or so - if I hand over a platinum visa or amex then I get asked for my YP card - if I pay by debit card - I never do..........in all cases I'm dressed the same - and yes I know you should always be asked for it - I deliberately dont to see how many do..... |
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Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
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readytostart
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2009, 00:14:12 » |
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Just don't then be a muppet and ask for "A ticket from BTM▸ ", as the conversation would then go downhill, as you have just said you boarded from a manned station...  Especially as you never know who's been watching you, not applicable in this case as grandsire had every intention of buying a ticket. I once whilst on a weekend off boarded a Voyager at either Basingstoke or Winchester (going back a couple of years now so I'm a bit hazy) and saw a group of yoofs pile into the disabled toilet (being of clean mind I assumed they were evading their fares!). Changing at Reading they split into two groups, cross-gangway toilets, on an HST▸ confirming my suspicions. On speaking to the guard in the TGS it was clear he couldn't be bothered (probably cashing up as noone could possibly evade the barriers at Reading) so I had a word in the ear of an RPI▸ on arrival at Paddington. Now I'm not a sadistic guard and if I'm too busy to reach everyone on my train then I don't expect them to all march to the booking office and buy a ticket after the journey (some surprisingly do!), however, if I think someone is 'at it' such as walking to the opposite end of the train to board when we're ready to leave, or even walking along saying to sit at the front 'cos the guy always checks the back first' (I have quite sensitive hearing!  ) guarantees they'll be where I start checking from. Brings a rare smile to some of my commuters faces as they often see the same people getting away without paying! |
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Mookiemoo
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2009, 00:17:47 » |
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Just don't then be a muppet and ask for "A ticket from BTM▸ ", as the conversation would then go downhill, as you have just said you boarded from a manned station... Especially as you never know who's been watching you, not applicable in this case as grandsire had every intention of buying a ticket. I once whilst on a weekend off boarded a Voyager at either Basingstoke or Winchester (going back a couple of years now so I'm a bit hazy) and saw a group of yoofs pile into the disabled toilet (being of clean mind I assumed they were evading their fares!). Changing at Reading they split into two groups, cross-gangway toilets, on an HST▸ confirming my suspicions. On speaking to the guard in the TGS it was clear he couldn't be bothered (probably cashing up as noone could possibly evade the barriers at Reading) so I had a word in the ear of an RPI▸ on arrival at Paddington. Now I'm not a sadistic guard and if I'm too busy to reach everyone on my train then I don't expect them to all march to the booking office and buy a ticket after the journey (some surprisingly do!), however, if I think someone is 'at it' such as walking to the opposite end of the train to board when we're ready to leave, or even walking along saying to sit at the front 'cos the guy always checks the back first' (I have quite sensitive hearing! ) guarantees they'll be where I start checking from. Brings a rare smile to some of my commuters faces as they often see the same people getting away without paying! or you get the likes of me who will dob in evaders e.g. Got on train at crewe heading to ludlow - guard doesn't manage to do ticket check until wem - oiks say they got on at wem - I pointed out to guard they got on at crewe - he ignored it! As someone who pays their way I do object to that! Guard just didnt want an argument on a sat night! He even had a witness |
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Ditched former sig - now I need to think of something amusing - brain hurts -I'll steal from the master himself - Einstein:
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe."
"Gravitation is not responsible for people falling in love"
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2009, 18:00:17 » |
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e.g. Got on train at crewe heading to ludlow - guard doesn't manage to do ticket check until wem - oiks say they got on at wem - I pointed out to guard they got on at crewe - he ignored it! As someone who pays their way I do object to that! Guard just didnt want an argument on a sat night!
He even had a witness
He may have had a witness, but that would have been of little help if said oiks had started to get violent! I can certainly see why on-train staff alone on a Saturday night take the easy option, however frustrating it is. |
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To view my GWML▸ Electrification cab video 'before and after' video comparison, as well as other videos of the new layout at Reading and 'before and after' comparisons of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/ |
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inspector_blakey
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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2009, 23:12:01 » |
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I did once have the pleasure of travelling on a London-bound HST▸ one Saturday night (forget if it was the 2200 off Bath or then one after that, but anyway, it was full of what I might poiltely describe as pissed-up swamp life) where there was a revenue protection manager on board assisting the conductor. Between the two of them these two gentlemen did a very good job of extracting unpaid fares, and threatened several prosecutions. Now, whether or not those threats were carried through is another matter, but I was genuinely impressed to see the staff going out of their way to deal with the situation rather than taking the easy option and hiding in the TGS.
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John R
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« Reply #12 on: July 22, 2009, 23:19:02 » |
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Wouldn't it be a lot more effective and sensible to man the barriers at Bath and Bristol on those nights to prevent such passengers getting on the trains in the first place? A couple of BTP▸ around could "encourage" people not to argue with barrier staff.
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Tim
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2009, 09:15:12 » |
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Wouldn't it be a lot more effective and sensible to man the barriers at Bath and Bristol on those nights to prevent such passengers getting on the trains in the first place? A couple of BTP▸ around could "encourage" people not to argue with barrier staff.
Whenever new barriers are installed FGW▸ claim that they are to improve passenger and staff stafy by controlling acess to platforms. Then they leave them open in the evenings when they would do most good in that direction. |
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Tim
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2009, 10:18:34 » |
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However, I do anyway - it's called taking pride in ones work.
thank you it is appreciated. Just be careful |
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