Weekend Day Returns

[whole diary]

[Steve Bray]

When buying my return ticket on Saturday and saying that I was returning the next day, the conductor told me that if I was returning before noon the next day (i.e. Sunday), I could have Day Return.

This was news to me - is it a new policy? Also, does the journey have to be completed by noon on Sunday, or does it just have to be started before noon?

[JayMac]

interesting one this....the T&Cs from National Rail Enquiries for Off Peak Days (CDS^▸ (Off Peak Day Single [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')),CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))) and Super Off Peak Days (SCO,OPD) include the following line:

If you break your journey and are still travelling at 0230 then you may stay on the train to complete that part of the journey, but no further break of journey is allowed and all travel must be completed by 1200.

Now to muddy the waters. My copy of Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) National Fares Manual CR-ROM shows the following conditon for CDRs and CDSs:

Off-Peak Day Singles and Returns: Valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 0230 the following day. If it is not possible to complete the journey before this time, travel is allowed until 1200 the day after travel - but no further break of journey is allowed.   

National Rail Enquiries T&Cs for Day Returns seem to imply that you need to still be travelling at 0230, not tucked up in bed and then resuming your journey the following morning. Whereas Avantix NFM^▸ (National Fares Manual) appears to allow you to complete your journey before 1200 the following day, if you couldn't complete it before 0230. This would appear to allow an overnight stay, because if you don't start your return journey at all, you can't complete it!

I think (?) the guard was right, but by cripes the T&Cs are confusing. 

[Btline]

Another reason to axe "Day" fares and have all returns valid for a month.

They also need to simplify regulations on breaks of journey, as I have read articles where guards don't even understand the rules.

[JayMac]

Another reason to axe "Day" fares and have all returns valid for a month.

Ah...but which way would the prices go? SVRs down to meet the CDRs^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))? Or CDRs up to meet the SVRs? If the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) have any input I know which way they'd want.

[devon_metro]

Another reason to axe "Day" fares and have all returns valid for a month.

Another reason not to listen to btline

[Btline]

True, it could cause price increases on the sly.

But it would help passengers untangle the complex web of rail fares. (esp if it seems that your return can be on a different day given the right circumstances!)

[TerminalJunkie]

Another reason not to listen to btline

Reason? Does there have to be a reason? </grytpype-thynne>

[readytostart]

Off-Peak Day Singles and Returns: Valid for travel on the date shown on the ticket and until 0230 the following day. If it is not possible to complete the journey before this time, travel is allowed until 1200 the day after travel - but no further break of journey is allowed.   

My understanding and implementation is that you need to have at least started your return journey before 0230. A reasonably simple solution (and excuse my examples as I'm not that clued up on the ins and outs of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services) is to buy a ticket one stop too far. I.e. Bath to Bristol, pay an extra 10p for a ticket to Bedminster where the last service of the bay misses the last connection to Bath.

[super tm]

I must say that the original guard is wrong.  It has always been the case  that you may complete your journey the next day with any ticket if you have started it but unable to finish it.

However you must have at least started you journey and by definition you must be travelling aroung late at night.  A scenario where this can be useful is travelling from Croydon to Bristol.  You arrive at paddington after the last train has left so you can catch the next a train next morning with an off peak ticket.

[Phil]

It has always been the case that you may complete your journey the next day with any ticket if you have started it but unable to finish it. However you must have at least started you journey and by definition you must be travelling aroung late at night.

This doesn't make the original guard "wrong".

It seems to me from the rules quoted above that the regulations on this subject are unclear at best.

Unless you can quote an actual regulation to back up your assertion that the guard in question was acting contrary to the written rule, Supper TM^‡(resolve), I'm afraid the courts would simply not recognise something which has allegedly "always been the case".

Meanwhile long may the human face of British railway staff prevail, and with it their ability to interpret the rules to suit the occasion. It's what sets us apart from a Communist state!