Is the half hourly between Cardiff and Paddington really justified in todays eco

[whole diary]

[Tim]

I can see the case for axing a few of the very empty services to Cardiff.  If...

a) enough sets were released for long enough to improve services to/beyond Exeter/Plymouth at times peoples are likely to use them.

b) half of the Temple Meads trains are extended to Cardiff (although not via Parkway because two reversals will just slow things down and i doubt that parkway gets much off-peak custom and there are XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) links from Parkway to BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI))).

c) extra Chipenham-Bath-TM^‡(resolve)-Newport-Cardiff-Swansea capacity provided by b) was provided at sensible times to fit into the existing inadequate service.

if those condictions could be met, a reorganisation would actually improve overall service levels, provide some new journey oportunities (ie, Chippenham to Swansea direct) although I admit that Cardiff-London would suffer slightly. 

Someone needs to do the sums and find the answer. 

[Timmer]

of course what makes it appear worse is that most of them want to sit in coach E, giving the impression that the train has filled up (to everyone else in coach E), but that's an argument for a different thread... 

Oh it is flamingo but I can't help but make a quick comment on why everyone wants to cram into the middle of the train when there are five other perfectly good and less crowded carriages. Almost always plenty of space in coach A so long as you keep it quiet!

[matt473]

I think it should be seen as a compliment to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) that people wish to travel on their trains when they could use ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)))  . Tbh I feel that the best way of dealing with the problem has recently been handed back to the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about) by FGW. I am obviously talking about the 180s which love them or loath them, were ideal for Cardiff/Bristol-London freeing up hsts for longer distance services. If someone high up had been thinking properly, the south west could of had the hsts which are currently on the hourly Cardiff-London trains which would be ran by the 180s increasing services overall.

[bemmy]

I think Bemmy's comment about services arriving any a few minutes apart applies to what would happen if half the paddington-parkway-cardiff servcies were axed and half of the BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) services extended to Paddington.  They would take longer to get to Cardiff and consequntly would not be too far behind the next direct service.

Correct..... sorry matt473, I should've put a relevant quote to make that clear.

Cardiff is smaller than Sheffield which only gets an hourly service to London.

But Cardiff is more of a regional centre than Sheffield: it serves a large population in the valleys, while Sheffield has a smaller hinterland, being relatively close to a number of other large cities.

I think what also needs to be taken into account is that the London-Cardiff service is the only regular intercity service that Cardiff recieves which is pretty poor considering the city of its size and the fact it is th capital of Wales. The only other intercity service is the token Crosscountry service which runs one service each way most days. If the half hourly frequency was withdrawn then it would be a PR^▸ (Public Relations) and politcal nightmare.

Although more trains to London doesn't make up for the lack of intercity trains to other places. The simple solution would be to upgrade the hourly Birmingham service to intercity status.

[Jez]

[/quote] Although more trains to London doesn't make up for the lack of intercity trains to other places. The simple solution would be to upgrade the hourly Birmingham service to intercity status.
[/quote]

They have made a start by having a small First Class section on Cardiff-Notts service. Although yes it takes more than that to make an intercity service.

[devon_metro]

I'd say its fairly Intercity:

Cardiff - Newport - Gloucester - Cheltenham - B'ham New Street

[Btline]

It's not InterCity. It stops (and should stop) at local places such as Tewkesbury (aka Ashchurch).

It is run by 170s. Hardly InterCity rolling stock.

[devon_metro]

It's not InterCity.

Well, it is, as it is long distance. It should not be stopping at small places such as Tewkesbury. The idea of the service is that people are able to travel to the Midlands from South Wales and Gloucestershire, not local passengers commute into Birmingham/Cheltenham.

By your own reasoning (based on your opinions of the Cotswolds) local passengers should be on a local service and subsequently change

[Btline]

But it is Ashchurch's service to Birmingham! Besdies, Tewkesbury is a fairly large place.

If XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) want to offer an additional fast service, so much the better. If this requires people to change, so be it. But the current service is the local service for places between Newport and Gloucester.

[John R]

Coming back to the question, a pax count of the 1055 Cardiff to London today showed around 140 standard class pax between Swindon and Didcot. 

I would expect at that time of day the heavier flow is still into London, so maybe the reverse workings would be even quieter?   

[eightf48544]

Could it be that everyone knows that you're safer in the middle of train? You're also usually nearer the paltform exits on most through stations. Plus closer to the Buffet if there is one.

Also you don't have to walk so far at Padd. Try Coach A Padd to Slough on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) you walk miles both ends.

[TerminalJunkie]

Could it be that everyone knows that your [sic] safer in the mifddle [sic] of train?

Of course, that's not always the case...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYubpuIe3cw

[IndustryInsider]

Also you don't have to walk so far at Padd. Try Coach A Padd to Slough on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) you walk miles both ends.

Well, more like 200 metres, but it is the case that some regular passengers on short routes like Padd-Slough would rather stand for the 15 minutes or so than walk down the far end of the train where there are plenty of seats. A strange concept for me to grasp, but it does happen!

If I was asked to estimate the number of people who unnecessarily stand on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) services, then I'd guess it was somewhere between 25-40% of the total standees - i.e. a large number of people! Split between those who choose to stand and those who don't realise there are seats in a different carriage. Some TM^‡(resolve)'s could do a lot better at informing passengers that there are seats further down the train.

[Jez]

It's not InterCity.

Well, it is, as it is long distance. It should not be stopping at small places such as Tewkesbury. The idea of the service is that people are able to travel to the Midlands from South Wales and Gloucestershire, not local passengers commute into Birmingham/Cheltenham.

By your own reasoning (based on your opinions of the Cotswolds) local passengers should be on a local service and subsequently change

I agree.  From my understanding of intercity services, they call at cities or major towns i.e. Cardiff - Padd calls at Newport, Bristol P, Swindon, Reading.

The Cardiff to Notts service calls at cities and major towns only (apart from University which it seems to call at every hour).  Its only very occasionally it calls at places such as Chepstow, Lydney, Ashchurch, Willington and Beeston.  There is a local service between Cardiff-Cheltenham which calls at smaller stations and I think XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) also run an hourly service between Brum and Notts which calls at smaller stations.

When Central Trains ran this service it called at many more stations including Ashchurch and Beeston every hour. I believe it was branded "citylink" by Central Trains. Since XC took over its become more intercity, possibly because XC run so many other long distance services.

[Jez]

Coming back to the question, a pax count of the 1055 Cardiff to London today showed around 140 standard class pax between Swindon and Didcot. 

I would expect at that time of day the heavier flow is still into London, so maybe the reverse workings would be even quieter?   

Plenty of passengers waiting for the 1555 as well - the 1545 Notts service departed a few mins late but plenty of people still stood on platform 1 waiting for the 1555 to arrive.