South Hampshire Rail Users (SHRUG)

[whole diary]

[The Grecian]

Apologies if this isn't the right place to put it - but as it's based in Southampton and has a (very brief) mention of FGW^▸ (First Great Western), it seemed appropriate.

I thought people might be interested in this somewhat(!) critical view of our railways:
www.shrug.info

It certainly makes some of the criticism of FGW here seem rather tame. While they have some valid points, they seem to deliberately find fault with anything SWT^▸ (South West Trains) do - not a great way to promote dialogue. I'd be interested to know what people make of it.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

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[rogerw]

Advance fares, split ticket journeys, rovers, railcards for starters

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

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[fullspeedahead]

I dont think it is possible to buy a network card online or over the phone, but I could be wrong.

Having said that, the way some people go on you would think that having a ticket office was the be all and end all of everything. If people need guidance on ticket types they can also look online first, post a question in a forum etc, and often get guidance that is just as good as that provided by a ticket office.

I would have said that the worst side effect of a ticket office being unexpectedly closed is when the people who normally buy their tickets at the windows end up causing a terrible queue at the machines as they gingerly press at the touchscreen, as if they are trying to defuse a bomb. Are these the same people that cause queues in banks?

[IndustryInsider]

It certainly makes some of the criticism of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) here seem rather tame. While they have some valid points, they seem to deliberately find fault with anything SWT^▸ (South West Trains) do - not a great way to promote dialogue. I'd be interested to know what people make of it.

I quite agree. A few rail user groups need to realise that venting all their anger by spewing out nothing but page after page of negativity to promote their cause (and massage the chips on their collective shoulders) can actually do more harm than good. Management quickly form the opinion that whatever they do will be criticised by them and will start to ignore them. Contrast that with Graham and Lee's patient and mature campaigning methods on here. FGW management do look at this forum (including Mark H as well I expect) and the fact it has a balanced range of comments means that they are much more likely to act on some of the problems that we raise.

[eightf48544]

I agree with both the Grecian and Industry Insider that it seems extremely hostile to SWT^▸ (South West Trains).

However, looking at the perfomance table listing late and cancelled/missed stops trains for May/June it does look pretty horrendous and is probably worth making a fuss about.

Maybe just publishing that each month without comment would be more effective than all the other invective. I'm not sure FGW^▸ (First Great Western), even it's bad old pre Hopwood days. had quite as many late cancelled missed stops trains each day.

[moonrakerz]

Looks like a very amateurish home-made version of the Daily Mail ! without the colour photos.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Looks like a very amateurish home-made version of the Daily Mail ! without the colour photos.

the sidmouth herald? 

[Denis]

It^s great that you are giving publicity to the South Hampshire Rail Users^ Group, though I hope more contributors to your website will make the effort to read beyond the lead item in No. 122, as we try to cover the full range of issues which matter to SWT^▸ (South West Trains) passengers. No. 123 has just gone on-line.

If SWT were anything like FGW^▸ (First Great Western), our website would be very different. FGW hold a great stakeholder conference every year, at which we are represented. They listen to passengers and have taken steps to accommodate their aspirations, particularly on timetables. SWT consistently fob off their passengers ^ you need only look at the transcripts of the bi-annual^ webchat^ events on the SWT website to confirm this. Rail Future, the Kingston Area Travellers Association and the Alton Line Users Association have all had problems with SWT.

On 18 July last year, local MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) including a minister, conducted a protest at Southampton Central about ticket office opening hours. Rather than listening, SWT set up a distraction (more precisely, they put up a poster early that morning in the station foyer saying London Travel Card operators would be running a survey at the station that day and they would give ^2 for charity for every questionnaire completed).

The warning on our website about SWT^s aggressive penalty fares scheme was posted at the request of the official watchdog Passenger Focus. SWT^s leaflet makes clear that penalty fares will be issued in cases of people who inadvertently get the wrong kind of ticket. Yet SWT stated in response to a webchat question that it would need a book to explain their ticket machines fully. That is one of many reasons that we are in favour of ticket offices, though  Passenger Focus and the Campaign for Better Transport have put forward many other reasons.  I would strongly advise people not to board a SWT train and ask for a Rover!

PF^▸ (Penalty Fare) also confirmed that SWT published a figure of 61% of respondents to their on-line poll as satisfied that they had won another franchise term, without awaiting the result of the poll, which was showing 34% about the time it closed.

The new 2007 timetable between Southampton and Weymouth is very unpopular (see correspondence in past issues of RAIL). DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) officials were surprised by the huge service downgrade at Totton (a town of 30,000 with another 25,000 for whom Totton station is the natural railhead) and said it was due to adjustments to their specification by SWT and Network Rail.

The officials were so interested in our proposals that they agreed a meeting, saying something along those lines was likely to be discussed. The meeting was futile because SWT didn^t want to know and, by then, the franchise agreement had been signed off. SWT still blames DfT for the downgrade, but it^s ridiculous to suggest that the timetable specification was ever fixed in stone given the significant changes made on FGW.

You may be aware of the NO 450 Group formed in the Portsmouth area, after SWT put suburban stock on the 90-minute commuter run from Portsmouth to Waterloo. This attracted many hundreds of complaints. The trains arrived as part of a stock reshuffle to save hire costs. The class 442 Inter-City stock paid for by taxpayers for the long-distance Waterloo-Weymouth run was dumped by SWT and now serves short-haul runs between Brighton and Victoria, Go Ahead being prepared to meet the cost, unlike Stagecoach. Class 450 suburban trains often run through from Waterloo to Weymouth, a journey of over two and a half hours. 

Southampton is a major international transport hub and has 40,000 university students and a large Polish community, but SWT has closed its station enquiry office in succession to its bus station. 

Our view of the Stagecoach ethos reflects the picture set out in ^Stagecoach^ by Christian Wolmar, which was written with the collaboration of Stagecoach bosses, including Brian Souter. Mr Souter should know the kind of company he is running.

We have had very many positive responses from MPs across the SWT area who are as concerned as we are about some of the things that happen on SWT. We have links with a County Council website and the Campaign for Better Transport website, and are widely recognised by the press and broadcasting media. A few years ago Carlton were going to film a documentary about us, but SWT denied the cameramen access to their trains.

I expect you know that Stagecoach founders Brian Souter and Ann Gloag not long ago received ^250m in bonuses over a 2-year period. SWT is always keen on investment but little of it is their money. Coincidentally, SWT also published a figure of ^250m as the sum they had spent on Southampton Central at the time they were bidding for the latest franchise, but after we raised the issue they said it was really ^250,000. I got an e^mail saying ^ and ^ are close together on keyboards.

I hope this makes our position clearer.

[Lee]

Welcome to the forum Denis.

I have to admit that The Grecian's opening post has certainly created quite an interesting debate, so thanks for your contribution.

[fullspeedahead]

Well Ive read through a few of the issues online and I have to say it does seem very negative and vitriolic. Yes its true that SWT^▸ (South West Trains) have misled passengers, but there are plenty of completely disproportionate statements in the newsletter as well.

One thing that caught my eye was the silly claim that not being able to use the station as a right of way whilst the nearby footbridge is being refurbished has resulted in a 1 mile detour for a group of elderly people... It is actually barely half a mile and repeating those kinds of letters published in the Daily Echo doesnt really do any one any favours.

To be honest the formatting is a little odd. I wonder if the use of capital letters for words like DUFF STOCK and OPERATIONAL CONVENIENCE in the daily reports are meant to actually indicate anger and shouting on the part of the editor.

[IndustryInsider]

Thanks to Denis for providing a detailed defence of his group. I do sympathise with some of his arguments, and admire the obvious time and research that goes into its website production. However, I still feel my original comment applies about giving a balanced output - vitriolic is exactly the right word 'fullspeedahead'!

My own experience of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) is limited, but I have always got a seat in a comfortable (if functional) Desiro train, with working air-conditioning. The journeys I can remember have always been on time, and staff have always been polite. The last journey I made (the other week) from Brockenhurst to Christchurch was virtually empty and yet still had a trolley service on board - though I had already bought something from the excellent facility at Brockenhurst station. Watching a Lymington Pier train leave Brockenhurst whilst I was waiting for my train, the guard almost begged me to get on the train 'Go on, you know you want to!' he said smiling and not aware I was a railway employee.

All-in-all, excellent stuff. So, from this occasional travellers experience, SWT have provided me with a more than acceptable service - though I am not too naive to realise that more regular exposure might paint a different story?

In 'Hogrider 122' I was interested to read the section on 'Bias Beyond Belief' where Rail contributor and fares and service campaigner, Barry Doe, gets a real grilling for some of the pro-SWT statements he's made in recent issues. Is he a SWT lobbyist? Can anyone remember a negative SWT article he's written? Just a thought...

[Denis]

Our website brings together the many problems which SWT^▸ (South West Trains)'s passengers experience, tests them against Stagecoach's expressed ethos, and looks for  patterns. It seems odd to suggest that the voices of large numbers of individuals complaining about poor treatment are somehow vitriolic. Are all the letters of complaint we collect individually vitriolic, or only collectively?

On the point about Southampton footbridge, the question is whether it's right to make elderly people take an unnecessary detour, whether one mile or half a mile. It can be socially exclusive where the elderly people are frail or disabled, and disability takes huge numbers of forms. If an elderly person states that a distance is longer than it actually is, it may well mean that the detour has been difficult for them. In addition, helping people take a shortcut through the station would show SWT in a very good light. I expect contributors are aware of the outcry about Sheffield station bridge since Stagecoach took over East Midlands.

Some of the staff on SWT are great, and some of them detest the way they are made to treat their customers - for example, locking doors on a 'connection' before departure time as passengers off a delayed train rush along the platform to catch it. At Woking I once saw a member of staff shoulder-butted in this situation. That was appalling, but common decency suggests that it was wrong to close the doors in the customer's face, although it was not the fault of the man on the front line.

As one of your contributors says, the delays etc on SWT can be horrendous. The capital letters simply make the frequency of the common operator problems more visual. Nobody is going to read through pages of  reports and ring the major problem types with a pencil.

Barry Doe is probably Britain's greatest fares expert. But he is hopelessly biased. When Stagecoach was bidding for the last franchise he e'mailed me saying how good SWT was and admitted he had been discussing with SWT management how they could get us on side. I think the answer is that deeds speak louder than words. Anyone read the SWT franchise prospectus 'Building on Success'?

It's always easier to attack other people's efforts to stand up for their fellow passengers than to stick one's head above the parapet and whistle-blow on lousy standards. It may be because MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament), Passenger Focus, the Campaign for Better Transport, the County Council, Arriva, First Group, Go Ahead, GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways), Northern/Nedrail, Laing (and even their Swiss railway partners) and National Express realise this that their contacts with us have been very friendly.

 Enjoy your coffee, and all your trips to the PO, superstore etc when you find them closed during opening hours. Complacency doesn't breed good services. 

[readytostart]

Watching a Lymington Pier train leave Brockenhurst whilst I was waiting for my train, the guard almost begged me to get on the train 'Go on, you know you want to!' he said smiling and not aware I was a railway employee.

"Hmmn, no ticket for this journey sir, I'm afraid that'll be full whack sir!" Sounds like entrapment to me! :oP