High Speed Service from Kent - effect on fares etc

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

Fair enough that Londoners will have more services - but lots of Kent towns are loosing theirs

SE Metro service improvement will not only benefit Londoners. These services extend beyond the border of Greater London to places such as Sevenoaks, Strood, Dartford, Rochester and Gillingham.

I'm still not convinced that the introduction of HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) will have a huge negative effect on the options available to commuters farther out from London.

[Btline]

I see your (very picky ) point, but I doubt anyone from Sevenoaks will get a stopper into London, seeing as there are regular fasts!

[paul7575]

Just concentrating on the '35% premium' for a moment. NO existing fares can rise by 35%

But the HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) fares don't exist now!

The NEW fares for HS1 are expected to be 35% dearer.

And for northern Kent, the journey time savings will be modest, as the Javelins travel over less of HS1.

I can only assume you didn't understand my earlier post then. The Ebbsfleet to St Pancras preview fare - available today - is exactly 35% higher than the existing Gravesend to London Terminals fare. The Ashford - St Pancras preview fare - also available today - is exactly 20% higher than the existing Ashford to London Terminals fare.

The new fares via HS1 are not 'expected to be 35% dearer'. They are limited exactly as I have described, the information is from the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) franchise specification.

You are right about journey time savings to/from North Kent being modest. Which is exactly why the pricing formula ensures that the premium has a lesser effect the further you travel on existing lines.

If you don't believe it just keep on exaggerating (as usual)...   

Paul

[moonrakerz]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8123798.stm

[devon_metro]

Arrived an impressive 3 minutes early at 0722am!

[IndustryInsider]

Thank goodness all went well. You can just imagine the headlines if there had of been any sort of delay! Now they can get on with running this 'preview' service - which realistically is a good chance to iron out any faults or problems with the schedules and passenger management before the full service starts.

As for the fares debate - the passengers will vote with their wallets. True, St. Pancras isn't as well sited as the traditional London terminals from South-East London, but the 'Square Mile' is the workplace of less than 10% of London workers (though I'm sure as a percentage of commuters from the South East it's higher), but developments like Canary Wharf, and on a smaller scale Paddington Central, are starting to dilute the dominance of the 'City' as the commuters place of work in London.

Expect the area around St. Pancras and Kings Cross to be rapidly developed over the next few years because of High Speed commuter and international travel as well as the Crossrail network - an example of this can be found here: http://www.argentkingscross.com/

[IndustryInsider]

On time on the return legs as well. Unlike SouthEastern's other services heading out from Charing Cross and Cannon Street which were suffering delays of up to an hour in the Tonbridge area. Perhaps SouthEastern were deliberately delaying them making their Javelin services look all the more appealing... 

[devon_metro]

1J68 0648 AFK^▸ (away from keyboard) - SPX 4 minutes early!

Looks like quite an impressive service if i'm honest, and grahame has elsewhere revealed that is isn't a complete and utter money spinner (as btline would like us to think!)

[willc]

The only fly in the ointment would appear to be this notice on National Rail -

Southeastern "Preview" High Speed Services on Tuesday 30 June and Wednesday 1 July 2009
Time Reported    28/06/2009 22:55
Last updated    30/06/2009 02:56
Route Affected   
Ashford International, Ebbsfleet International & London St Pancras
TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) Affected   Southeastern
Description   
Because of a technical problem, the Southeastern "Preview" services running on the High Speed line are currently showing as cancelled in the Journey Planner
These trains will be running as expected. For the latest real time information about these trains please use the Live Departure Boards

[willc]

Looks like the commuters of Ashford are prepared to pay the extra. From Southeastern website

"Jul 2 2009
High speed services proving a success

Following the successful launch of the ^preview^ High Speed services on Monday 29 June, passenger numbers using the service have required Southeastern to double the length of the train on some services.

The service has proven so popular with passengers that Southeastern today were required to double the length of the 0748 from Ashford International to St Pancras and the 1737 from St Pancras International to Ashford International from six to 12 cars."

[grahame]

The service has proven so popular with passengers that Southeastern today were required to double the length of the 0748 from Ashford International to St Pancras and the 1737 from St Pancras International to Ashford International from six to 12 cars."

It seems like a different world .... just imagine ... "The service has proven so popular with passengers that First Great Western today were required to double the length of the 06:35 from Bedwyn to Paddington from five to 10 cars."

[Btline]

Not surprised it is busy - people are trying it out.

The test will be whether they stick! When they turn up to buy their annual season.

Re: fares. It was the press/Southeastern's website that stated that fares would be up to 35% dearer. Then again, it would not surprise me to see the press exaggerating...

[devonian]

A lot of people from Ashford will pay the premium just to avoid overcrowding on the morning fasts. I've caught several early morning trains that have been full and standing on leaving Ashford. The general consensus (having spoken to friends who commute and also to friends and family who work for SET^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET))) is that it is too expensive - but people are saving over an hour a day travelling and that this is worth the extra.  Will be interesting to see season ticket sales though.

[Btline]

...but people are saving over an hour a day travelling...

Not if they work in the City or in the West End! Instead they'll have the pleasure of the Northern Line (the busiest Tube line) each day!

[JayMac]

...but people are saving over an hour a day travelling...

Not if they work in the City or in the West End! Instead they'll have the pleasure of the Northern Line (the busiest Tube line) each day!

The Northern Line to the West End? St Pancras is on the Bank Branch of the Northern Line, which goes nowhere near the West End. Piccadilly, Victoria, Circle, Hammersmith and City (at the moment) all go to points west.