Catering Facilities

[whole diary]

[johoare]

Hello matt473, Welcome to the Coffee Shop.. And thank you for your offer of information on the Heart of Wales line too 

[Jez]

Thanks to everyone for the info on the Heart of Wales and West Wales lines. It would be interesting to see a typical diagram of ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) Wales services.

It sounds like most services that start at Swansea are 153's or 150s as the "swanline" Swansea to Cardiff services tend to be run by a mix of 153s/150s.  Ive noticed that the 1910 Swansea to Cardiff "swanline" service is always a 175 tho - i think thats because the service starts further West in Carmarthen or Milford Haven and this diagram was obviously used for a Manchester-West Wales service earlier in the day.

Dont often see Pacers West of Bridgend in my experience - occasionally ive seen one used on "swanline" but very rare.  West of Brigend its normally either 153's or 150's for the more local services or 175's for the long distance West Wales to Manchester services. And FGW^▸ (First Great Western) high speed trains of course!

[Hafren]

The 1910 starts at Milford - instead of leaving Swansea at 1855 for Manchester, it connects with the fast train and waits until 1910 - probably as a means of ending the diagram at Cardiff. The Swanline unit on the 1738 from Cardiff (now starts at Ebbw Vale) returns to Cardiff on the fast train, which in fact goes to Cheltenham instead of Manchester. The Manchester that it would form starts at Maesteg.

I believe the current daytime Swanlines are a 153 (which starts as the early Shrewsbury-Swansea-Cardiff) and a 150. Some early morning and later evening runs are covered by through trains, many of which are 175s. Pacers used to be used on the 193x CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)-SWA^» (Swansea - next trains), but since December (IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly)) that's been replaced by extra stops on the 1904 off Cardiff (which is the daily Manchester - Pembroke Dock). Now that the first and last Pembrokes are 175s, I would guess that it's mostly 175s that stable at Carmarthen overnight.

These days not many 158s make it west of Cardiff - they have to be used on the Cambrian lines, which since December (when they were extended to Bham Intl) have interworked with Birmingham-Holyheads, so half of the departures from Holyhead must be 158s. The rest are used on some CDF-HHD and Maesteg/Cheltenhams.

Is anyone willing to pay for extra trains on the Heart of Wales line?  I've always thought that there is an significant untapped marked on the south end of the Heart of Wales line - especially Pontarddulais/Ammanford, which are quite big places within commuting/shopping distance of Swansea/Llanelli, but with badly-timed trains as far as local traffic is concerned. Perhaps some comparison could be drawn with a certain well-known place in England, although in this case we're not talking about a recent reduction. Apart from Fishguard (which just has boat trains) it's the lowest frequency on the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) network. There are regular buses from Swansea to Ammanford/Llandeilo, which suggests there is a reasonable market - but this does of course tell the bean-counters that the social need is being met by buses. The trains aren't the fastest, especially with the dogleg via Llanelli, but they're much quicker than the buses and I don't think the journey time compares too badly to the time by car. Some time ago I had a look at the timetable and tried to work out what might be feasible. As a start, two-hourly Llanelli-Llandeilo would certainly be feasible if someone could magic up another 153. Hourly would be possible, but would make things tight on the single line between Morlais Jn and Llandeilo. Extension to Swansea like the existing trains would be very useful (and help encourage travel) but might require more units, and would be a nightmare to time across the single line through Gowerton.

A few years ago ATW was looking for 101s to use as tourist trains (for Blaeneu Ffestiniog and Heart of Wales I think). This would have been good for covering the weekend tourist demand without finding more Sprinters, as well as being a marketing feature. It would be nice to have units with a forward view! There was something about this on the Railcar site. I believe it fell through because no-one wanted to give up a 101 in reasonable condition. So the request changed to a 121, which ended up being found for Cardiff Bay.

[John R]

It's occurred to me too that the communities at the southern end of the HoW^‡(resolve) line enjoy a much poorer service than they would if they were on a normal welsh branch line. As well as commuting options for Swansea and Llanelli, a direct service into the capital could be run via the Swansea District Line, with journey times of around an hour. 

[matt473]

It's occurred to me too that the communities at the southern end of the HoW^‡(resolve) line enjoy a much poorer service than they would if they were on a normal welsh branch line. As well as commuting options for Swansea and Llanelli, a direct service into the capital could be run via the Swansea District Line, with journey times of around an hour. 

People at the Southern end do need a better service as the times are favourable when compared to the bus, even with having to stop and reverse at Llanelli. Being quicker and cheaper than the bus should have people flocking to the service but so little advertising takes place it is criminal. But the whole line is important and needs a better service at there is surprisingly a large amount of people who use the line to get to school for example or travel from rural areas to towns like Llandrindod Wells to get to shops as there are no busses running in the area. No doubt many comparisons can be made with the Cornish branchlines which also seem to be neglected despite the vast potential to develop services.

[Hafren]

Comparisons that spring to mind are:

Newquay - was 4 per day (except summer extras), not usefully timed, but as we all know had some useful improvements recently.

Far North - 3? per day, but had some shuttles added at the southern end a few years ago to provide a more useful service to provide more journey opportunities from the areas closer to Inverness.

[John R]

No doubt many comparisons can be made with the Cornish branchlines which also seem to be neglected despite the vast potential to develop services.

I think the Cornish branchlines are far from neglected. Half hourly on the St Ives and Falmouth lines, and a recent increase in service on the Newquay line to 7 a day.

[John R]

I read an interesting piece the other day - http://www.teletext.co.uk/regionalnews/wales/e707cfdaf71b78facc2b1455879197df/MP+trains+are+overcrowded.aspx

According to the above article, passengers on the Heart of Wales line are apparently in mortal danger from overcrowding, and a new TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) entitled "Arriva Trains West" appears to have been created...

Mark Pritchard is the one MP who enjoys knocking Wrexham & Shropshire, has in the past described them as a franchised operator, and seemed to be the only person taken in by Virgin Trains now binned idea to run services to Shrewsbury.

Another howler:-
http://www.markpritchard.com/search/article.php?id=1350
when Mark thinks the overrun was at Liverpool Lime St, not Liverpool St. Still neither are very close to his constituency, so I suppose it's too much to ask him to check his facts before speaking in the Commons.

In other words, he hasn't a clue about the railways  , though presumably he makes sure he keeps his train tickets to claim back his expenses. 

[Jez]

Thanks to everyone for the info on ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) diagrams.

How many diagrams on Maesteg to Cheltenham Spa are 158's and 150s? I saw a 175 on this service yesterday - around 7.30pm at Gloucester and heading for Cheltenham so I assume it was a working on this service.


I also assume the 20xx service from Cardiff goes to Chester rather than Manchester as this train goes to the Chester depot.  Most trains in Chester seem to be 175s - with the occasional 158.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

143, 153, what's the difference - all I know is it wasn't a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) or a 180!   

153's are strange units the 143's were designed for short commuter journeys and small branch lines the 153's are frequently used to increase capacity on these services they were however built as class 155's and modified to become 1 car units the 155's were designed to run on medium distance provincial routes as a result have long coaches only 1 door at each end and tables on the back of each seat aswell as larger tables for 4.

which means that you are in the strange situation of having short branchlines with trains with tables and comfortable seats and the other extreme of pacers being used on longer distance routes busy ones at that so it could be argued that some of the lesser used services have a superior ride quality to that of busy commuter services

when a 153 is added to a 142 its like having 1st and standard class.... maybee they should start charging extra lol jk

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

lol i may take my camera up cardiff tomorow i fancie a day out, im halfway threw sorting me flickr account out

[Jez]

I was on a 175 from Maesteg a few weeks ago, two young lads walking past going "bloody hell, the whole train is 1st class!" 

lol! Well im sure to what usually gets sent up to Maesteg a 175 is first class!!

[Jez]

I have changed the title of this to Arriva Trains Wales services as discussion is more general rather than about just catering facilities.

I just noticed a 142 is running a swanline service today.

[Hafren]

The 17.21 Cardiff-Maesteg is a 175 - it was well-known for overcrowding, which wasn't helped when it ended up carrying a lot of CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains)/BGN commuters after the 1515 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-SWA^» (Swansea - next trains) was cut back to Cardiff. It has been a 3-car for some time now, with the platforms having been extended on the Maesteg branch. It's an extension of a Holyhead-Cardiff working, which is advertised as a through HHD-MST service these days. For the first year of the Standard Pattern Timetable that HHD-CDF formed the 1738 Swanline, before switching to Maesteg, and later becoming an advertised through service.

Looking at the timetable the one that passes Gloucester at 7.30pm traces back to the 11.18 CDF-MST, which originates at Holyhead. I think it was a 158 when I saw it a few weeks ago.

A few other Chester/Holyheads go through to Maesteg - the timings naturally fit together. Since  May they've become advertised through trains. This feeds a number of 158s into the Maesteg/Cardiff/Cheltenham circuit. Before the SPT^▸ (Signal Post Telephone) most of the Maesteg trains were Pacers (often to/from Coryton), but now Maesteg sees a lot of express units for a local service.

I found some ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) diagrams on the web a couple of years ago. They're a good guide to the general pattern, but there have been a lot of changes since then.

[Jez]

I didn^t realise 175^s went to Maesteg - I heard about the 1721 being overcrowded with it being the first service calling at Bridgend after the traditional finishing work time of 5pm (the 1704 to Carmarthen probably cutting it fine).

Im surprised they don^t run the Swanline at 1714 in line with the 2 hourly pattern (1314, 1514 etc) but I understand its at 1738, around 10 minutes before the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) high speed service.

It makes sense to incorporate Maesteg/Cheltenham diagrams with some of the Holyheads I guess. 

I remember the days when we used to get services from West Wales to destinations such as Bristol Temple Meads/Penzance/Portsmouth - even when ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) took over we still got some (maybe not Portsmouth but definitely 1 a day to Penzance) but they were withdrawn with December 05 TT change.  Anyone know why?