Catering Facilities

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

Anyone know why?

They were pointless, slow and hideously uncomfortable for such a journey.

A 158 on Manchester - Penzance via the Marches in Summer, what a nightmare!!

[Hafren]

Im surprised they don^t run the Swanline at 1714 in line with the 2 hourly pattern (1314, 1514 etc) but I understand its at 1738, around 10 minutes before the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) high speed service.

I would guess it's a combination of:
- When the Standard Pattern Timetable started there was another departure around 1715, in the form of the 1515 PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-SWA^» (Swansea - next trains).
- 1738 is quite a useful time.; 1714 might be a bit too early for some commuters, bearing in mind that there's not another Swanline departure until after 7pm, and the 1704 also makes Swanline stops.
- The working that forms it arrives in time for a 1738 departure. Currently it's a through service from Ebbw Vale.

I remember the days when we used to get services from West Wales to destinations such as Bristol Temple Meads/Penzance/Portsmouth - even when ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) took over we still got some (maybe not Portsmouth but definitely 1 a day to Penzance) but they were withdrawn with December 05 TT change.  Anyone know why?

The draft SPT^▸ (Signal Post Telephone) retained the through services - a couple to Penzance and several more to Bristol. They were just bolted onto the Holyhead/Cardiffs, complete with doubling back between Newport and Cardiff and a long wait at Cardiff. I suppose someone just decided it duplicated Wessex's role, and those units would have been locked away from the ATW core network doing something other TOCs can do.

Through trains at least as far as Bristol TM^‡(resolve) would be extremely useful. There have been suggestions that ATW should take over Bristol-Cardiff, or at least the stopping trains (Cardiff-Portsmouth is also very useful and I don't think it should be split, which would mean FGW keeping it). I'd like to see Carmarthen/Swansea to Bristol, but I'm not sure what they would do west of Cardiff. One suggestion is extending the Swanlines to Bristol, but I can't see that really working path-wise. It would be nice to see through trains to Bristol that connect with SWT^▸ (South West Trains) to Waterloo.

[Jez]

The swanline service that passes Neath at around 2150 was a 158 this evening - Hafren, do you know what this diagram is used for earlier in the day and is a normally a 158? I dont usually catch this one. I was expecting a 153!

[Jez]

I noticed today that the 1327 from Fishguard Harbour now forms the 1605 Cardiff-Cheltenham Spa service and is advertised as a through service from Fishguard to Cheltenham.  I remember before it used to form the 1608 to Abergavenny before that service was withdrawn.

I suppose this is handy for people travelling from Fishguard, Carmarthen and Llanelli who want to connect with a long distance Crosscountry service and can do so now with 1 change at Cheltenham rather than changing at Cardiff also.

[Hafren]

The swanline service that passes Neath at around 2150 was a 158 this evening - Hafren, do you know what this diagram is used for earlier in the day and is a normally a 158? I dont usually catch this one. I was expecting a 153!

That one is the 19-something from Pembroke Dock. I haven't seen that service or anything earlier in the day that would form it since the May timetable change. It must be the diagram that starts with the 0900ish CMN-SWA^» (Swansea - next trains) and then the 1005 SWA-PMD. I am a bit intrigued by that diagram, as it's done some odd things as of May that I can't quite work out!

Once the Cambrian lines are covered (158s are needed for RETB^▸ (Radio Electronic Token Block) operation), and the Holyheads (some of which interwork with Cambrian lines), and some Maestegs/Cheltenhams, there can't be many 158s left for anywhere else!

On the subject of express units on Swanline, either my eyes have been playing tricks on me or the morning Carmarthen-Swanline-Cardiff has been a 175 the last couple of days...

[Jez]

After looking at the live departure boards tonight on the website i noticed that service originated from Pembroke Dock. It was a 153 tonight - perhaps it being a 158 yesterday was a one off. I was happy it was as I was travelling on it last night and I dont like 153's much! I guess units are mixed and matched on the swanline/heart of wales/pembroke dock services with them all being 2 hourly and starting at Swansea so units get moved around these services to fit in with diagrams.

Is the early morning swanline you refer to the one that would arrive into Cardiff around 8.20am? I think that is always a 175 now - not sure what service that runs later on - perhaps the 9.20 from Cardiff to Holyhead? Cant recall any other 175's that start at Cardiff.

I guess the same is true of 175's - they run the West Wales-Manchester and North Wales-Manchester services, plus I think they run most of the Cardiff-Holyheads now. So there cant be many of them spare for other routes either.

Maesteg-Cheltenham seems to be a mix of 150's and 158's - with the occasional 175.

[Jez]

Anyone know why the 19:10 from Milford Haven now appears to terminate in Cardiff Central and not continue to Crewe?

There appears to be a service to Crewe at 2155 from Cardiff Central (it may be the same unit that runs this service) so its strange its no longer advertised as a through unit.

[inspector_blakey]

Difficult to say without any inside knowledge. My first reaction was that it might no longer be advertised as a through train to allow flexibility to re-start the train from Cardiff if the working from Milford was running late. However, ask NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) for a journey from MFH - CRE^» (Crewe - next trains) and it's still 1910 depart, arr CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) 2147, dep CDF 2155, arr CRE 0100. So it's definitely still an advertised connection, meaning that ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) would have to make alternative arrangements were it to be missed. Can only assume that it's a different unit now.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

Ahh the good old early morning 158 to Devon from manc threw Wales I remember it well! Mummy where's the buffet?

[Jez]

Difficult to say without any inside knowledge. My first reaction was that it might no longer be advertised as a through train to allow flexibility to re-start the train from Cardiff if the working from Milford was running late. However, ask NRES^▸ (National Rail Enquiry Service) for a journey from MFH - CRE^» (Crewe - next trains) and it's still 1910 depart, arr CDF^» (Cardiff - next trains) 2147, dep CDF 2155, arr CRE 0100. So it's definitely still an advertised connection, meaning that ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) would have to make alternative arrangements were it to be missed. Can only assume that it's a different unit now.

Most likely it is another unit running it then. Perhaps one unit stays in Cardiff overnight to start as service there the next morning, and the other is then in Crewe for the first Crewe-West Wales service the next day.

[IndustryInsider]

I think it's mostly a case of the west Wales branches to Milford Haven and Pembroke not justifying quite as frequent a service as during the week, and the numbers of people between Swansea and Cardiff not being enough to justify two or three trains an hour, with one full length HST^▸ (High Speed Train) being sufficient until mid-afternoon when the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) service frequency steps up a little. An hourly through service between Swansea/Cardiff and London is certainly warranted on a Sunday.

You could shave maybe 5-7 minutes off the timings to Swansea if you removed the stops after Cardiff, but that isn't really justified given that Bridgend, Port Talbot and Neath passengers would have to change at Cardiff - all three places have populations between 35000-45000 so they're pretty big places.

[Hafren]

To re-iterate the question, is, if Arriva have the franchise for Wales, why are they in effect running a service from 06.40 (first Arriva train off Swansea Monday - Saturday) to 23.15 (last Arriva train off Cardiff Monday - Friday), and relying on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to take up the slack before and after these times?  Is it something that is in the franchise arrangements, or is it just "because they can?" 

It seems natural to me that FGW should operate the the early and late trains. FGW is the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) that has a depot at Swansea and runs the London trains, which need to be in London in the morning peak, hence early morning departures from Wales, and come back late at night. With that in mind, there's not much point in ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC)) running any more trains unless someone decides that more early/late Swanline or Carmarthen trains are needed. Arriva running trains in at these times (bearing in mind that Carmarthen and Cardiff are the natural terminating points, not Swansea) strikes me as being just doing something arbitrary for the sake of running Welsh trains in Wales. Arriva operates the 'Welsh' TOC but FGW is equally imporant to Cardiff and Swansea as the London InterCity operator.

[Lee]

The relevant section of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise specification (A2) can be found on pages 12-15 of http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/publicregister/current/fgw/fgwcommitment2b.pdf

[inspector_blakey]

Some very late/very early FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trains are the truncated Fishguard HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train): they now connect at Swansea with the 2345 SWA^» (Swansea - next trains)-FGH and the 0150 FGH-SWA operated by ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))). I think that ferry connection is the main reason for the incredibly early HST off Swansea, as I can't imagine there are that many business travellers who want to leave SWA that early in the morning to be in London by 0700...

[matt473]

Could also be a stock positioning move ran as a service as Landore is somewhat of a busy depot. Apparently they are the best depot with dealing with certain troublesome powercars with a certain component (think is a motor of some sort) so maybe these Landore based sets need to make their way to London and may as well make a service out of it