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Author Topic: Night Riviera Sleeper train - between Paddington and Penzance  (Read 932409 times)
Jamsdad
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« Reply #1800 on: March 29, 2023, 23:00:32 »

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.
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bobm
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« Reply #1801 on: March 29, 2023, 23:27:00 »

Ironically if the strikes hadn’t been called off it wouldn’t have been running anyway for much of this week.
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grahame
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« Reply #1802 on: March 30, 2023, 00:32:36 »

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

I wondered if it went to Reading for servicing ... but Real Time Trains suggests it just goes to Laira at 05:50. And it reports it as being just 3 carriages.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1803 on: March 30, 2023, 06:50:07 »

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

The absurdly early arrival time at Plymouth is one of the reasons why the sleeper is not a practical option for most - major missed opportunity for GWR (Great Western Railway) to provide this service to the largest and most strategically important city in the South West - especially since it lost its airport.

An arrival at (for example) 0730 would make it a viable option for business travellers - in a rapidly contracting business rail travel market it could have been a real asset.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #1804 on: March 30, 2023, 08:48:32 »

And miss the ferry connection to Scilly? Might be some complaints, no?
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #1805 on: March 30, 2023, 09:35:55 »

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

The absurdly early arrival time at Plymouth is one of the reasons why the sleeper is not a practical option for most - major missed opportunity for GWR (Great Western Railway) to provide this service to the largest and most strategically important city in the South West - especially since it lost its airport.

An arrival at (for example) 0730 would make it a viable option for business travellers - in a rapidly contracting business rail travel market it could have been a real asset.

We’ve had similar conversations before. 

Revenue would have to exceed the additional operating costs to have any chance of the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) (and in the future, GBR (Great British Railways)) ever wanting to pay for GWR to operate a Plymouth portion as part of the sleeper service again.

Do you think it would?  Do you know if the three MP (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)’s (two Tory, one Labour) that represent Plymouth are actively lobbying for it?
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1806 on: March 30, 2023, 09:50:08 »

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

The absurdly early arrival time at Plymouth is one of the reasons why the sleeper is not a practical option for most - major missed opportunity for GWR (Great Western Railway) to provide this service to the largest and most strategically important city in the South West - especially since it lost its airport.

An arrival at (for example) 0730 would make it a viable option for business travellers - in a rapidly contracting business rail travel market it could have been a real asset.

We’ve had similar conversations before. 

Revenue would have to exceed the additional operating costs to have any chance of the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) (and in the future, GBR (Great British Railways)) ever wanting to pay for GWR to operate a Plymouth portion as part of the sleeper service again.

Do you think it would?  Do you know if the three MP (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context)’s (two Tory, one Labour) that represent Plymouth are actively lobbying for it?

Forget the portion, just run it later so it arrives at Plymouth at a reasonable time and market it as an option for business travel to the Southwest.

I take the point about the Scillonian but it only runs for 8 months a year and I'd be interested in the details of numbers of customers who use the sleeper specifically for that purpose.

At the moment the sleeper is run largely on whimsy and subsidy at a time when the railway needs to save money and/or look to increase revenue. This would seem an opportunity worth investigating.

I have no idea whether Plymouth MPs are lobbying for it. I suspect that it's been so hopelessly impractical for so long that people/business just gave up and drove/travelled elsewhere and it's not talked about much.

This may be a way to get more people on the trains which I thought the majority of those on this forum were keen on?
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Jamsdad
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« Reply #1807 on: March 30, 2023, 17:38:41 »

There is a way to use the sleeper to go to Plymouth AND have a reasonable getting up time. Stay on the sleeper until Redruth ( arr 0720) and then  get a single ticket back to Plymouth (arr 0908) !
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grahame
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« Reply #1808 on: March 30, 2023, 17:56:32 »

There is a way to use the sleeper to go to Plymouth AND have a reasonable getting up time. Stay on the sleeper until Redruth ( arr 0720) and then  get a single ticket back to Plymouth (arr 0908) !

Or easement 020003 - or rather a new one for the South West

 
Quote
020003 Routeing Point
Passengers for Aviemore and Carrbridge are permitted to alight from the sleeper at Inverness and double back to their destination in the morning.
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« Reply #1809 on: March 31, 2023, 00:07:09 »

Forget the portion, just run it later so it arrives at Plymouth at a reasonable time and market it as an option for business travel to the Southwest.

I take the point about the Scillonian but it only runs for 8 months a year and I'd be interested in the details of numbers of customers who use the sleeper specifically for that purpose.

As well as the Scillonian, there's a few potential issues that might cause problems if you did that:

1)  AIUI ('as I understand it') the three customer hosts who work the sleeper service do so throughout from Paddington to Penzance.  That's already a long shift and it probably wouldn't be possible to extend those shifts by two or more hours.  So there might be extra costs providing two sets of customer host crews.
2)  Not sure what the TM (Train Manager, or Ticket Machine, or Temple Meads (Bristol), depending on context)'s and Drivers do, except that they change over at Exeter, but again 2-3 hours later into Penzance might mean more crew are required overall depending on what trains they work next.
3)  Passenger trains leave Plymouth for Penzance at 07:12, 07:43, 08:08, 08:47 and 09:15.  Given the signalling headways on the route there is no room for another one, so one would have to go and I doubt that would be popular amongst the good folk of Cornwall.  You'd be looking at a Penzance arrival of around 10:00-10:30, with the first day time train from Paddington arriving not too long after at 11:40!

At the moment the sleeper is run largely on whimsy and subsidy at a time when the railway needs to save money and/or look to increase revenue. This would seem an opportunity worth investigating.

I have no idea whether Plymouth MPs (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post (a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London), depending on context) are lobbying for it. I suspect that it's been so hopelessly impractical for so long that people/business just gave up and drove/travelled elsewhere and it's not talked about much.

Sounds like the sort of thing one of the local MP's would love to crow about achieving, and if the extra stumbling blocks above can be overcome, perhaps it's worth you (or a friend who still lives in one of the constituencies) from writing to them to suggest?

This may be a way to get more people on the trains which I thought the majority of those on this forum were keen on?

I'd be delighted if the DfT» (Department for Transport - about) funded the extra costs that would result from either a long layover at Plymouth or a second portion being detached.  However, that needs to be balanced with the clear intention of the DfT to reduce costs, not increase them, as evidenced by the quite severe cut backs in rolling stock that GWR (Great Western Railway) are permitted to use.  Costs seem much more important than any revenue growth at the moment.

For that reason I personally think it's a bit of a non starter sadly.
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« Reply #1810 on: March 31, 2023, 01:06:31 »

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

I asked a host about this on one sleeper trip a few years ago. From memory if passengers are on the train then there has to be a driver in the cab should the Loco be attached and (at least one) member of staff in the carriages. 
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Kernowman
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« Reply #1811 on: April 27, 2023, 20:59:57 »


Re Sleepers

The Plymouth - Glasgow sleeper started to/from Penzance on Summer Saturdays (departure on or around 17.00), in its latter years (mid 90s?) the whole stock, including sleepers, started to/from Penzance on a Summer Saturday.

I remember the Plymouth portion of the Pad - PZ sleeper, I did it once and had a class 08 shunter for haulage from platform 4? to platform 8 at Plymouth hauling one sleeper and a guards van.

Sometimes the Motorail vans used to go down on the Newspaper train which left Paddington at 00.30 and got to Penzance at 06.54, this meant that your car got to Penzance before you did on the Pad - PZ Sleeper!  The Newspaper train finished around August 1988.

Until around 1978 there were two overnight Paddington - Penzance sleepers, one of which had the Exeter sleepers attached/detached at Exeter.
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bobm
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« Reply #1812 on: July 10, 2023, 19:49:40 »

Could be awkward….

Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 will now run as scheduled.
Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 8.

Additional Information
We regret to inform you that Coach 'G' on our 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance Night Riveria Sleeper service will not be available for customer use owing to a fault on this carriage which could not be rectified.

We apologise for the obvious inconvenience this will cause to customers booked to be accommodated in coach 'G' tonight.

Customers who are booked to be accommodated in coach 'G' on this service who have not been contacted by our Customer Services Team already, please contact our Customer Services Team on 03457000125.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #1813 on: July 10, 2023, 21:38:00 »

Could be awkward….

Quote
23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:54 will now run as scheduled.
Will be formed of 7 coaches instead of 8.

Additional Information
We regret to inform you that Coach 'G' on our 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance Night Riveria Sleeper service will not be available for customer use owing to a fault on this carriage which could not be rectified.

We apologise for the obvious inconvenience this will cause to customers booked to be accommodated in coach 'G' tonight.

Customers who are booked to be accommodated in coach 'G' on this service who have not been contacted by our Customer Services Team already, please contact our Customer Services Team on 03457000125.

Those in "G" Hotbunking with those in carriages F & H then?

Make new friends and get cosy!  Smiley
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Mark A
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« Reply #1814 on: July 10, 2023, 22:15:04 »

Puts me in mind of the tale from someone at work - on the Bristol to Edinburgh West Country Angloscottish sleeper in the eighties. Unexpected halt and rather delayed at Cheltenham, it emerged that her carriage had an issue and needed to be removed (and from the middle of the train for good measure...) to allow the rest to proceed.

I *think* there was enough room aboard that she was able to transfer to alternative cabin.

Mark
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