Night Riviera - merged posts, ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[LiskeardRich]

.........may not have seen them or spoken to them in person, but I read the comments on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s Twitter feed from people stranded in the manner I alluded to, which seems to bear it out.

I promise you, spending your social time reading FGW's Twitter feed is a proven fast way to a nervous breakdown  .

I thought it was a comedy script. There is a woman on facebook who complains twice daily that her train was 1, 2 or 3 minutes late. She even moans when it's on time.

Back to topic...
How simple would it be to turn HST^▸ (High Speed Train) carriages into beds when they aren't needed anymore when electrification is finished?

[Kernow Otter]

Look at what you can do from the outset - might look familiar.

http://www.nswtrainlink.info/your_journey/fleet/xpt

Rode this from Melbourne to Sydney overnight. 

Anything is possible...

[Ollie]

.........may not have seen them or spoken to them in person, but I read the comments on FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s Twitter feed from people stranded in the manner I alluded to, which seems to bear it out.

I promise you, spending your social time reading FGW's Twitter feed is a proven fast way to a nervous breakdown  .

It is? Maybe I should be off of work then

[JayMac]

Of course the level of service is not good enough, however the re-wiring to run with HST^▸ (High Speed Train) power-cars would require the mass cancellation of the service while this was happening, as you cannot have a mix of re-wired and non re-wired coaches running in the same set.  So, do you think the service could survive a good month or so of permanent HST replacement?

Do the carriages have to be re-wired to be compatible with the Class 43s? Can it not be done the other way round? Replace the three phase auxilliary alternator in the HST power cars with a 1000v supply. HSTs already generate DC^▸ (Direct Current) current for the traction motors. It can't be beyond the wit of man to re-purpose the electric generation. Even at the cost of less power going to the traction motors. Hauling Sleeper stock won't require 125mph running.

I do have say though, I'm not completely conversant with how the Class 43's prime movers generate and distribute their electricity.

A retro alternative would be to fit each individual Sleeper carriage with batteries and dynamos.

Another alternative is to convert a few Mk3s to generator vans similar to those used by Iarnr^d ^ireann in their (now retired) BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Mk3 derived fleet.

But the best answer is, first, some new locos, and second, new rolling stock.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Yours is one voice of calm and reason in the gathering storm, Ollie. 

[grahame]

Of course the level of service is not good enough, however the re-wiring to run with HST^▸ (High Speed Train) power-cars would require the mass cancellation of the service while this was happening, as you cannot have a mix of re-wired and non re-wired coaches running in the same set.  So, do you think the service could survive a good month or so of permanent HST replacement?

Even with the constraint of "ancient or modern only", it wouldn't require total replacement for any period.

a) One set at a time, so continue to run a full sleeper from Penzance on Sunday, Tuesday and Thursday nights and from Paddington on Monday, Wednesday and Friday (or the other way round if I've picked the quieter or the two diagrams there)

b) With the second set, there would be the option of HST substitution (bearing in mind the effect on other rotas) or running a half length sleeper, enhanced with spare carriages (are there any?  Any chance to borrow from the Caledonian Sleeper?)

Alternative would be to run 2/3 length sleepers, converting the carriages 1/3 at a time.

The sleeper has indeed survived being off for couple of months during Dawlish - of course I'm not privy to the damage done, nor the damage that would be done during a conversion, but I don't see it would be as severe as "no sleeper at all for x months". Seasonallity would help - "This is a quiet time of year" said the conductor on my (rather busy!) local train a few days ago, and I imagine the sleeper 'suffers' similarly?

[Rhydgaled]

Any chance to borrow from the Caledonian Sleeper?

No need to borrow once the new stock for the Caledonian is delivered, but a shorter-term solution is probably needed.

[Super Guard]

Of course the level of service is not good enough, however the re-wiring to run with HST^▸ (High Speed Train) power-cars would require the mass cancellation of the service while this was happening, as you cannot have a mix of re-wired and non re-wired coaches running in the same set.  So, do you think the service could survive a good month or so of permanent HST replacement?

Do the carriages have to be re-wired to be compatible with the Class 43s? Can it not be done the other way round? Replace the three phase auxilliary alternator in the HST power cars with a 1000v supply. HSTs already generate DC^▸ (Direct Current) current for the traction motors. It can't be beyond the wit of man to re-purpose the electric generation. Even at the cost of less power going to the traction motors. Hauling Sleeper stock won't require 125mph running.

I do have say though, I'm not completely conversant with how the Class 43's prime movers generate and distribute their electricity.

A retro alternative would be to fit each individual Sleeper carriage with batteries and dynamos.

Another alternative is to convert a few Mk3s to generator vans similar to those used by Iarnr^d ^ireann in their (now retired) BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) Mk3 derived fleet.

But the best answer is, first, some new locos, and second, new rolling stock.

I don't know for sure, but I believe there is an option to do it the other way round - the issue then being you have dedicated power-cars for the service.  Power-cars still break down, so if you are not tied to a specific pair of them, you have more flexibility.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Look at what you can do from the outset - might look familiar.

http://www.nswtrainlink.info/your_journey/fleet/xpt

My late grandfather was seconded from BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) to help with the introduction of the XPTs (the timetabling and service pattern in particular, I think). As an eight-year old one of my prized possessions was a little rotating cardboard dial that showed off the new journey times. I didn't know whether the trains were faster or slower than the previous ones, but I did know that Wagga Wagga was a brilliant placename.

[Thatcham Crossing]

When I passed OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) at around 8am this morning, the sleeper stock was being backed into the depot by a "Northern Belle" brown loco (class 47?).

[Rhydgaled]

When I passed OOC^▸ (Old Oak Common (depot)) at around 8am this morning, the sleeper stock was being backed into the depot by a "Northern Belle" brown loco (class 47?).

There are 4 'Northern Belle' Pullman liveried diesel locos I think. Two are class 47s and the other two are class 57/3 'Thunderbirds', same as the DRS^▸ (Direct Rail Services Ltd) blue locos which have supplemented FirstGW's own pool of 4 class 57/6 locos.

[Adelante_CCT]

57312,, here is a link to it having failed on Sunday night (not my video)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDxCfZ2N6c0

[ellendune]

What is the difference in the wiring between the sleepers and HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s?

[bobm]

Not sure about the wiring, but I am pretty sure the voltage is different.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Agree: I'm sure it's been discussed on the Coffee Shop forum before (I can't find it at the moment, due to our 'search' software being discomnadgerated  ), but it's because the two are currently completely incompatible.