Night Riviera - merged posts, ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[The Tall Controller]

Also adding that tonight's down sleeper will be powered by 2 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) powercars as far as Plymouth with 57603 left to struggle on to Penzance.

[JayMac]

It's good that, by hook or by crook, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are doing all they can to keep the Sleepers running, but the situation with the poor reliability of the 57s can't go on. Delays, HST^▸ (High Speed Train) substitutions, and cancellations will start affecting the decisions of regular users as to whether the Sleeper is a viable option.

[bobm]

I must admit that thought did cross my mind.  30 minutes at Plymouth on New Years Day is one thing, waiting an extra hour while the train struggles through Cornwall would have given me second thoughts.

[TaplowGreen]

I must admit that thought did cross my mind.  30 minutes at Plymouth on New Years Day is one thing, waiting an extra hour while the train struggles through Cornwall would have given me second thoughts.

Bin the sleeper (or at least suspend it until some way can be found of making it reliable) and run an early service from Paddington to the Westcountry instead, leaving around 0500 and reaching Exeter/Plymouth (0730/0830) at a sensible time to do a day's business, could even be run as a Pullman and marketed as a business traveller train - that's what Devon/Cornwall desperately needs.....not a sleeper service that chucks you out at Plymouth at 0515, that's worse than useless, and with the current level of reliability I can't see anyone trusting it much, to say nothing of all the people that get messed around by the cancellations the next morning when it falls over.

[JayMac]

... and in the other direction?

[TaplowGreen]

... and in the other direction?

0509,0530,0553 from Plymouth get into Paddington between 0900-1000

0505 from Penzance gets in 1002

[JayMac]

Up Sleeper does give folk the chance to be at a desk by 9am though.

[Super Guard]

TG, I understand the point, but it's not just at the desk for 0900 in London.  Many people go straight to the HEX service, as they have flights.  Not everyone wants to (or can) leave the SW late afternoon the day before to bed in a hotel at Heathrow for an early flight.

If you can sleep on the sleeper, than you're going to feel better than getting up at 0400 for your early trains.

I personally don't understand why the down sleeper doesn't keep the Monday times, arriving for 0900 in PZ, and let the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service run the 05:43 departure.  If anyone desperately needs to be in Cornwall that early, they can do the connection to the XC at Plymouth.  A 06:28 departure from Plymouth is a little more sociable to those having a day there too.

Glad to see an uneventful night last night though in both directions!

[Rhydgaled]

Split a full HST^▸ (High Speed Train) set for MK3's and place said MK3's in HST 2+7 Sets making them 2+8

Then adapt the HSTs to work with Locomotives such as the Class 57 or 67 for push-pull?

Yes a stupid Idea I know... But I recall that Class 91s ran with Class 43s on the trailing end when the supply of Class 82 DVT^‡(resolve) Units were less than limited.

Or stick another Class 57 on the end of both sets? That way it saves having to drag sets around or needing to run around the Carriages at the destination ends - neither of which you can do at Paddington and Penzance...

I don't think there are supposed to be any 2+7 IC125 sets anymore.

With the 91s, I don't think it was just the DVTs missing, the rest of the Mrk4 coaches were missing too and the train was basicaly an IC125 with a 91 in place of one of the two 43s. As for push-pull, why has nobody made a subclass of diesel locos capable of working with any one of the many stored DVTs since that capability was removed from the buffer-fitted 43s? It would save having two locos on the summer extra LHCS^▸ (Locomotive Hauled Coaching Stock) in East Anglia, which contains a DVT. With Chiltern and ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))), they have had to modify both the loco and DVT, why not just modify the loco and be able to use any DVT?

[The Tall Controller]

Demand in Cornwall is quite high on the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service after the sleeper as it forms a early commuter service to Truro.

For anyone who says Cornwall and Devon can do without a sleeper train must use it and see what a benefit it brings to the region.

[TaplowGreen]

Demand in Cornwall is quite high on the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service after the sleeper as it forms a early commuter service to Truro.

For anyone who says Cornwall and Devon can do without a sleeper train must use it and see what a benefit it brings to the region.

I would imagine more frequent, reliable services would bring much more of a benefit...I cannot imagine the benefit to Plymouth (for example) that a service arriving at 0515 in the morning brings, as against one arriving 3 hours later.

I'd be interested to know what the loading of the down sleeper is like, outside of tourist periods?

[The Tall Controller]

It can often run full on the Monday where it runs later than the rest of the week due to the combination of overnighters and commuters as well as a reduced capacity over the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) which copes much better during the week.

Not sure if it already exists but could an easement could be put in place that allows sleepy Plymothians to alight further down i.e. Par or Bodmin Parkway which could put their arrival time in Plymouth at 0741 instead. Such an easement is already in place for those going to Exeter and Taunton.

Edited to add: Also note that although the sleeper does arrive in Plymouth at 0515, it doesn't leave for another half an hour.

[bobm]

Meanwhile, just to note, the sleeper coach abandoned in the early hours of the 2nd January remains in the sidings just to the east of Swindon station.

Despite a portable lamp being attached to the buffer beam, the on board red lamps still seem to be functioning.

[TaplowGreen]

Meanwhile, just to note, the sleeper coach abandoned in the early hours of the 2nd January remains in the sidings just to the east of Swindon station.

Despite a portable lamp being attached to the buffer beam, the on board red lamps still seem to be functioning.

I wondered if that was the one! Went past it yesterday on the Merchant Venturer.

[Umberleigh]

Demand in Cornwall is quite high on the XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) service after the sleeper as it forms a early commuter service to Truro.

For anyone who says Cornwall and Devon can do without a sleeper train must use it and see what a benefit it brings to the region.

I would imagine more frequent, reliable services would bring much more of a benefit...I cannot imagine the benefit to Plymouth (for example) that a service arriving at 0515 in the morning brings, as against one arriving 3 hours later.

I'd be interested to know what the loading of the down sleeper is like, outside of tourist periods?

Used the sleeper on a quite regular basis from 2010-13 in the London- Exeter down direction, departing Paddington just before midnight.

Always a very pleasant experience, and always very busy on the various Wednesday and Friday nights that I travelled. Friendly staff deserve a mention, too. Used to love having a nightcap in the buffet car as envious late night commuters scurried past to get their late night. One memorable night we ran parallel to a Thames Turbo for a while, should have seen their faces as I raised my G&T in salute, from the light of my table lamp...

But it's been a good while since the ageing 47s were tarted up into 57s, and frankly they don't seem up to the task nowadays. Hotel chains go to great lengths to ensure their passengers get a good night's sleep - including budget chains - and sleeper passengers being made to sit on HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) is unforgivable. Something needs to be done.