Night Riviera - merged posts, ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Sorry, the demand to be in Plymouth from East of Exeter for 0800 I reckon could be counted on one hand on a day to day basis.

So, you think GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are going ahead with this earlier service based on a projected passenger count of 5 or fewer per day?

Errr.....GWR new offering arrives c.0945, we're now discussing whether it ought to be even earlier at c. 0800. Donkeep up at the back please

[TaplowGreen]

Sorry, the demand to be in Plymouth from East of Exeter for 0800 I reckon could be counted on one hand on a day to day basis.

So, you think GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are going ahead with this earlier service based on a projected passenger count of 5 or fewer per day?

Errr.....GWR new offering arrives c.0945, we're now discussing whether it ought to be even earlier at c. 0800. Donkeep up at the back please

Actually Chris my original "0800" suggestion upthread related to a coach being detached from the down sleeper on arrival at Plymouth in order to enable passengers to stay on board until around 0800, it was nothing to do with GWR's new offering, notwithstanding that an earlier arrival time (by 1 hour?) than 0945 at Plymouth for that one would be handy.

[IndustryInsider]

Maybe the flexibility provided by the AT300 fleet will make it worthwhile running a 5-car set from Paddington westwards before 6am, perhaps coupling at Exeter to form a longer 10-car service for Plymouth commuters? Certainly it would be massive overkill to provide a full length train at that time of the morning.

[ChrisB]

Sorry, the demand to be in Plymouth from East of Exeter for 0800 I reckon could be counted on one hand on a day to day basis.

So, you think GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are going ahead with this earlier service based on a projected passenger count of 5 or fewer per day?

Errr.....GWR new offering arrives c.0945, we're now discussing whether it ought to be even earlier at c. 0800. Donkeep up at the back please

Actually Chris my original "0800" suggestion upthread related to a coach being detached from the down sleeper on arrival at Plymouth in order to enable passengers to stay on board until around 0800, it was nothing to do with GWR's new offering, notwithstanding that an earlier arrival time (by 1 hour?) than 0945 at Plymouth for that one would be handy.

....if it's not possible to run this one earlier....[\quote]

That reads that if it could be, you'd rather that than the sleeper. And that is what I was referring to

[TaplowGreen]

Sorry, the demand to be in Plymouth from East of Exeter for 0800 I reckon could be counted on one hand on a day to day basis.

So, you think GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are going ahead with this earlier service based on a projected passenger count of 5 or fewer per day?

Errr.....GWR new offering arrives c.0945, we're now discussing whether it ought to be even earlier at c. 0800. Donkeep up at the back please

Actually Chris my original "0800" suggestion upthread related to a coach being detached from the down sleeper on arrival at Plymouth in order to enable passengers to stay on board until around 0800, it was nothing to do with GWR's new offering, notwithstanding that an earlier arrival time (by 1 hour?) than 0945 at Plymouth for that one would be handy.

....if it's not possible to run this one earlier....[\quote]

That reads that if it could be, you'd rather that than the sleeper. And that is what I was referring to

OK  I appreciate that it may be open to that interpretation if you want it to be, let's rise above semantics shall we?..........I'm still interested in your response to the wider question I posed re: an 0800 arrival (either way you want to cut it)

I'd be interested in knowing on what you base this latest assumption since currently it's impossible by rail so I'm unclear what empirical/anecdotal data exists? 

If you'd tried the A38 into Plymouth at that time of the morning your opinion may be somewhat different! (...and yes I know it's not all coming from East of Exeter)

What I do know for a fact (because I have been involved in several) is that one of the key factors that Businesses look at in deciding where to locate/relocate is the availability of regular and reliable transport links, be it local and/or with National reach for larger companies - it's one of the more significant factors in the "rise" of Exeter as a location for Business at the expense of the (much larger) city of Plymouth, irrespective of the decline of the Dockyard.

Not the only factor, but can be a key differentiator when it comes to making the decision. It's a good opportunity for rail to be part of a joined up picture and to generate income.

[ChrisB]

Why would you locate your company that far West if you need a regular fast connection towards London? You just wouldn't...plenty of other more suitable locations

[LiskeardRich]

In the absence of public transport to Plymouth earlier than say 10am, is premier inn and travelodge style accommodation in Plymouth booming? This may indicate whether people want to get to Plymouth earlier by public transport.

[TaplowGreen]

Why would you locate your company that far West if you need a regular fast connection towards London? You just wouldn't...plenty of other more suitable locations

   .......not sure if that's intended as a rhetorical question, but.thankyou for proving my point very succinctly.....that's exactly why one is needed to improve the region's viability......an earlier arrival is a good first step.

[bobm]

Maybe the flexibility provided by the AT300 fleet will make it worthwhile running a 5-car set from Paddington westwards before 6am, perhaps coupling at Exeter to form a longer 10-car service for Plymouth commuters? Certainly it would be massive overkill to provide a full length train at that time of the morning.

Depending on maintenance/stabling arrangements this could mean turning what would otherwise be an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) positioning move into a passenger service I suppose.

[PhilWakely]

Why would you locate your company that far West if you need a regular fast connection towards London? You just wouldn't...plenty of other more suitable locations

   .......not sure if that's intended as a rhetorical question, but.thankyou for proving my point very succinctly.....that's exactly why one is needed to improve the region's viability......an earlier arrival is a good first step.

and is exactly why it takes a breached sea wall to provoke any potential central government investment. If Dawlish hadn't happened, Devon and Cornwall would probably still be ignored by central government

[JayMac]

Donkeep up at the back please

Is that a cross between these two?

[bobm]

Don't be an ass. 

[ChrisB]

Why would you locate your company that far West if you need a regular fast connection towards London? You just wouldn't...plenty of other more suitable locations

   .......not sure if that's intended as a rhetorical question, but.thankyou for proving my point very succinctly.....that's exactly why one is needed to improve the region's viability......an earlier arrival is a good first step.

So, you are saying that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has to run a loss-making service in order to (possibly) attract businesses to Plymouth? Shouldn't the Council be sponsoring this?

[TaplowGreen]

Why would you locate your company that far West if you need a regular fast connection towards London? You just wouldn't...plenty of other more suitable locations

   .......not sure if that's intended as a rhetorical question, but.thankyou for proving my point very succinctly.....that's exactly why one is needed to improve the region's viability......an earlier arrival is a good first step.

So, you are saying that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) has to run a loss-making service in order to (possibly) attract businesses to Plymouth? Shouldn't the Council be sponsoring this?

ChrisB - so far in this thread from you we've had assumptions that no-one has meetings before 0900, assumptions that only students arrive early in the morning via the overnight coaches, assumptions that only around 5 people want to get to Plymouth from East of Exeter in the morning, and now you've decided that an early morning service would be lossmaking, despite the fact that it's never been tried and GWR are planning on running one which will arrive roughly an hour earlier than the current earliest arrival......when it's suggested that you come up with some data or evidence  to back any of this up, you just ignore it and move on to another assumption - sorry but it's difficult to have any meaningful dialogue on that basis.

[plymothian]

2C41 EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains)-PAR which arrives at PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) at 07.40 is usually run as a 153, which is generally plenty of capacity.