Night Riviera - merged posts, ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[JayMac]

The best solution IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) would be an order for some new electro-diesel locos (Class 88 or similar) and some of the excellent CAF Mark 5 Sleeper carriages.

That'll cost money though. Something the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are loathe to spend at the moment. Only when the South West's MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) start piping up will the likelihood of such spending be considered.

[IndustryInsider]

What will they do when HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) are no longer available to rescue the sleeper.

Either a GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) 57 or a freight loco would be used…as would have been the case in this example had it happened away from where the HSTs still operate.

Naturally the freight company would charge GWR the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) handsomely for their troubles and it would likely have resulted in a bigger delay.

[bobm]

There was a time when reliability was a regular issue that both sleepers ran top and tailed with a 57 at each end rather than just between Reading and London.

[Mark A]

I've not used either since the new Calsleeper stock came into service or the refreshed GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), ditto: online reviews and photos suggest that the GWR offering is streets ahead from the point of view of design. CAF do not seem to have discovered how to illuminate an environment designed for rest, and that saw-tooth table in the Calsleeper lounge car looks inflexible and somewhat aggressive. Their previous stock at the end of its days was somewhat fault-filled and that tradition seems to have been carried over into the new.

Mark

[bobm]

The real thing which lets the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) sleeper down is catering.  To me a bed is a bed. 

On the Scottish sleepers you can get a proper meal while down south you might get a sandwich if you are lucky.

Agreed the journey on the Cally is longer but not exceptionally so.

[PhilWakely]

The real thing which lets the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) sleeper down is catering.  To me a bed is a bed. 

On the Scottish sleepers you can get a proper meal while down south you might get a sandwich if you are lucky.

Agreed the journey on the Cally is longer but not exceptionally so.

I couldn't fault the 'Full Scottish breakfast' consumed whilst crossing Rannoch Moor 

[grahame]

for the record ... engineering this week:

Planned engineering work will take place between London Paddington/Reading/Plymouth and Penzance via St Austell on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, from 23:30, Monday 27 March 2023 to 08:00, Friday 31 March 2023.

Some lines will be blocked.

Additional Information

On Monday 27 to Thursday 30 March, the 2345 London Paddington to Penzance 'Night Riviera' Sleeper service will terminate at Plymouth at 0511. Passengers will need to vacate the train on or shortly after arrival.

* For passengers travelling to St Austell and beyond, a replacement bus will depart Plymouth at 0525, non-stop to St Austell 0645. A connecting rail service will depart St Austell at 0653, calling at Truro 0708, Redruth 0720, Camborne 0727, Hayle 0735, St Erth 0739 and Penzance 0749.

* For passengers travelling to Liskeard, a connecting train will depart Plymouth at 0530, arriving Liskeard at 0557.

* For passengers travelling to Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel or Par, travel on 0530 train to Liskeard, then by replacement bus service from Liskeard at 0610 to Bodmin Parkway 0635, Lostwithiel 0655 and Par 0715.

Not sure that I would find getting up at 5 a.m. attractive after a quarter to midnight departure from London.  Thank goodness I am retired!

[Jamsdad]

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

[bobm]

Ironically if the strikes hadn’t been called off it wouldn’t have been running anyway for much of this week.

[grahame]

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

I wondered if it went to Reading for servicing ... but Real Time Trains suggests it just goes to Laira at 05:50. And it reports it as being just 3 carriages.

[TaplowGreen]

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

The absurdly early arrival time at Plymouth is one of the reasons why the sleeper is not a practical option for most - major missed opportunity for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to provide this service to the largest and most strategically important city in the South West - especially since it lost its airport.

An arrival at (for example) 0730 would make it a viable option for business travellers - in a rapidly contracting business rail travel market it could have been a real asset.

[ChrisB]

And miss the ferry connection to Scilly? Might be some complaints, no?

[IndustryInsider]

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

The absurdly early arrival time at Plymouth is one of the reasons why the sleeper is not a practical option for most - major missed opportunity for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to provide this service to the largest and most strategically important city in the South West - especially since it lost its airport.

An arrival at (for example) 0730 would make it a viable option for business travellers - in a rapidly contracting business rail travel market it could have been a real asset.

We’ve had similar conversations before. 

Revenue would have to exceed the additional operating costs to have any chance of the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) (and in the future, GBR^▸ (Great British Railways)) ever wanting to pay for GWR to operate a Plymouth portion as part of the sleeper service again.

Do you think it would?  Do you know if the three MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)’s (two Tory, one Labour) that represent Plymouth are actively lobbying for it?

[TaplowGreen]

I agree. I really dont see why the sleeper cant stay on the platform until 7.30. It always used to when there was a separate Plymouth portion.

The absurdly early arrival time at Plymouth is one of the reasons why the sleeper is not a practical option for most - major missed opportunity for GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) to provide this service to the largest and most strategically important city in the South West - especially since it lost its airport.

An arrival at (for example) 0730 would make it a viable option for business travellers - in a rapidly contracting business rail travel market it could have been a real asset.

We’ve had similar conversations before. 

Revenue would have to exceed the additional operating costs to have any chance of the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) (and in the future, GBR^▸ (Great British Railways)) ever wanting to pay for GWR to operate a Plymouth portion as part of the sleeper service again.

Do you think it would?  Do you know if the three MP^▸ (Member of Parliament)’s (two Tory, one Labour) that represent Plymouth are actively lobbying for it?

Forget the portion, just run it later so it arrives at Plymouth at a reasonable time and market it as an option for business travel to the Southwest.

I take the point about the Scillonian but it only runs for 8 months a year and I'd be interested in the details of numbers of customers who use the sleeper specifically for that purpose.

At the moment the sleeper is run largely on whimsy and subsidy at a time when the railway needs to save money and/or look to increase revenue. This would seem an opportunity worth investigating.

I have no idea whether Plymouth MPs are lobbying for it. I suspect that it's been so hopelessly impractical for so long that people/business just gave up and drove/travelled elsewhere and it's not talked about much.

This may be a way to get more people on the trains which I thought the majority of those on this forum were keen on?

[Jamsdad]

There is a way to use the sleeper to go to Plymouth AND have a reasonable getting up time. Stay on the sleeper until Redruth ( arr 0720) and then  get a single ticket back to Plymouth (arr 0908) !