Night Riviera - merged posts, ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[metalrail]

Tonight's down starts at Reading again and the up terminates at Reading but both due to be away on time.

I really wouldn't fancy having to get out on 03:59 at Reading to get on another train on to London ... and would hope to be able to get to sleep before 00:45 in the other direction.

Same here...  does kind of defeat the object of a 'sleeper'

[broadgage]

Very poor indeed.
The whole point of a sleeper, is being able to sleep for the whole journey, or for whichever portion of the journey that one desires.
Being able to board the sleeper in good time, and take refreshment  or go straight to bed should be part of it.
A connecting service requiring a change at Reading is really not on. Barely acceptable under exceptional or emergency conditions, but not as a regular feature as is occurring.

A cynic like me might suspect that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are trying to get rid of the sleeper. They cant just remove it, as sleeper provision is a franchise requirement.
If however enough passengers can be deterred by the need to change trains at Reading and loose a couple of hours sleep, then revenue might drop enough to be able to remove the service in future.

[JayMac]

Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs^‡(resolve). CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.

[metalrail]

Another sleepless night tonight...

I know engineering work is obviously necessary, but I can't see the point of still running this as a sleeper service when you're expected to be woken up to get off at Plymouth for replacement road transport, then back on another train at St Austell!

"Engineering work is taking place between Liskeard and Par, closing some lines.

The 23:45 London Paddington to Par "Night Riviera" Sleeper service will terminate at Plymouth. Replacement road transport will run from Plymouth to St Austell for a rail connection onwards to Truro and stations to Penzance.

There will also be a rail connection from Plymouth to Liskeard for road transport from Liskeard to Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel and Par."

[broadgage]

Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs^‡(resolve). CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.

Yes, it is rather far fetched.
Almost as far fetched as a suggestion that proper inter-city trains could be replaced with 5 car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) without buffets.

A survey needs to be done to show that hardly anyone uses the sleeper and that a non-sleeper train would be preferred by most.

[Dispatch Box]

Getting rid of the Sleeper seems a little far fetched considering the money being spent on refitting the Mk3 SLEPs at the moment.

Then there's the political aspect. Previous rumblings of a withdrawal led to a concerted campaign from Plymouth/Cornwall politicians to 'save' the Sleeper. Expect similar again if the next franchise tender allows for withdrawal.

What's actually needed is new locomotives, and possibly DVTs^‡(resolve). CAFs Mark 5A DVT with a Class 68 would seem like a good option if they can be married to the Mk3 SLEPs. Having a DVT negates the need to rely on two locomotives for moving stock into and out of Paddington.

Or of course the next franchise could go for Mk5 Sleeper carriages of a similar design to those being introduced on the Caledonian Sleepers.

Yes, it is rather far fetched.
Almost as far fetched as a suggestion that proper inter-city trains could be replaced with 5 car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) without buffets.

A survey needs to be done to show that hardly anyone uses the sleeper and that a non-sleeper train would be preferred by most.

I Think maybe a better idea is to have four IETS Converted into sleeper trains, these would be more efficient. Or specially built trains with smaller windows for 1st and standard with a 1st and std breakfast coach.

[broadgage]

A DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

[grahame]

A DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

I recall seeing a picture of a 153 in "Night Star" livery at Blaeneau Ffestiniog.  For the "Beds to Brussels" service?

To be fair, I think it was photoshopped ...

[CMRail]

A DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isn’t a silly one.

[IndustryInsider]

A DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isn’t a silly one.

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s requirements.   

[CMRail]

A DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) sleeper ! two classes of travel could be provided, "engine under bed" or for a higher price "no engine under bed"

Would beds/mattresses with some padding be allowed ? Or would they be like the seats ? Would Hitachi have to approve the bedding, would it have to have a lurid green stripe.

More seriously, I suppose that this could be made to work but it seems rather improbable. DMU sleepers would almost certainly have to be new build, not converted from existing stock since supplies of same are already inadequate.

Have a day off, he was only making a suggestion that isn’t a silly one.

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s requirements.   

It was more the fact that it’s unnecessary to moan about an Intercity Express Train in a thread about the Night Riviera just as he shows dislike towards the DMU.

[Surrey 455]

However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s requirements.   

How many carriages, compartments & beds does the existing sleeper have? How many do you think could Vivarail offer if they were to do such a thing? How noisy are the D Trains?

[IndustryInsider]

How many carriages, compartments & beds does the existing sleeper have? How many do you think could Vivarail offer if they were to do such a thing? How noisy are the D Trains?

Lots.  Nowhere near as many.  Very noisy.

[TonyK]

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s requirements.   

In a previous, more nomadic, period of my life, I did in fact sleep on the Circle Line, and still don't know where the depot I woke up in is.

[Dispatch Box]

Broadgage seldom misses an opportunity.  However, for me, more likely is a conversion job by Vivarail.  After all, the sleeper timings could easily be kept with a 60mph D Train and they have promised their train interiors are very flexible to meet a TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s requirements.   

In a previous, more nomadic, period of my life, I did in fact sleep on the Circle Line, and still don't know where the depot I woke up in is.

You must ave, been very tired,Must of had a good day. Like a teddy bear at a picnic.