Night Riviera - merged posts, ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

From memory the axing of the Plymouth carriage was down to the extra expense of running it. I think they had to have a shunter & driver there to move the carriage which wasn't cheap apparently. I used it at least once and it was convenient but I think the shunting woke me up.

Yes, that’s right.  It in effect saved what was a marginal service good for the region, as the extra cost of the Plymouth portion was dragging it down financially.  It would be nice if it could have a Plymouth portion (as it would be nice if it had an Exeter portion) but few would say the outlay makes financial sense.  A later departure time from Paddington might be a better idea to allow a later arrival time at Plymouth, though if it’s too late then the attraction of joining it at Reading is reduced significantly.  As is often the case, there has to be a sensible trade off.

[broadgage]

I cant see the sleeper being withdrawn any time soon. It is much favoured by drunken Sorry hard working and stressed MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context).

A later evening or earlier morning service is a very poor substitute for a night in bed if suffering from a "stress headache"

[bobm]

From memory the axing of the Plymouth carriage was down to the extra expense of running it. I think they had to have a shunter & driver there to move the carriage which wasn't cheap apparently. I used it at least once and it was convenient but I think the shunting woke me up.

Yes, that’s right.  It in effect saved what was a marginal service good for the region, as the extra cost of the Plymouth portion was dragging it down financially.  It would be nice if it could have a Plymouth portion (as it would be nice if it had an Exeter portion) but few would say the outlay makes financial sense.  A later departure time from Paddington might be a better idea to allow a later arrival time at Plymouth, though if it’s too late then the attraction of joining it at Reading is reduced significantly.  As is often the case, there has to be a sensible trade off.

Not sure it is still exists but there used to be a ticket easement which allowed Exeter passengers to double back via Plymouth so they didn't have quite such an early start.   Perhaps there should be an easement for those travelling to Plymouth to allow them to go to say Bodmin Parkway or Truro and catch one back and be in Plymouth in time for a morning meeting.

[Umberleigh]

The sleeper neither lacking in passengers or recent investment, and is hugely important to residents of Cornwall.

However, Exeter, Totnes, Newton Abbot and Plymouth deserve a 23.00 fast train from Paddington, and I personally believe this would not impact the sleeper adversely

[PhilWakely]

Note sure it is still exists but there used to be an ticket easement which allowed Exeter passengers to double back via Plymouth so they didn't have quite such an early start.   Perhaps there should be an easement for those travelling to Plymouth to allow them to go to say Bodmin Parkway or Truro and catch one back and be in Plymouth in time for a morning meeting.

I asked that very question a couple of years back when using the sleeper back to Exeter. Their answer was...

travel on to Plymouth would be overcarrying and an excess would need to be paid to cover this portion of the journey.

[Thatcham Crossing]

However, Exeter, Totnes, Newton Abbot and Plymouth deserve a 23.00 fast train from Paddington

Seems a fair point, Swansea have one that departs PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) at 2245 and Cardiff a 2330.

[TaplowGreen]

Note sure it is still exists but there used to be an ticket easement which allowed Exeter passengers to double back via Plymouth so they didn't have quite such an early start.   Perhaps there should be an easement for those travelling to Plymouth to allow them to go to say Bodmin Parkway or Truro and catch one back and be in Plymouth in time for a morning meeting.

I asked that very question a couple of years back when using the sleeper back to Exeter. Their answer was...

travel on to Plymouth would be overcarrying and an excess would need to be paid to cover this portion of the journey.

Which just goes to show the lack of joined up thinking - what use is a "sleeper" that turfs you out at Exeter at 3am, or Plymouth just after 5am?

It may be an asset to the good people of Cornwall, but from a business perspective, which must be one of its drivers, Westbound to Devon it's pretty useless.

A 2230-ish fast service as suggested would be far more practical, at least you'd be able to get a bit more kip in a hotel when you arrive ready for the next day, or an 0530 fast service Taunton - Exeter - Plymouth..........make it a Pullman and serve breakfast!

[IndustryInsider]

The trend is for later departures so I can see a later evening service being a distinct possibility - to complement the sleeper service, not replace it.b

[TaplowGreen]

The trend is for later departures so I can see a later evening service being a distinct possibility - to complement the sleeper service, not replace it.b

Let's hope so - but if there's a later evening service that gets to Exeter at (for example) around 0030 and Plymouth an hour  later, it stands to reason that you can expect far fewer customers for those major destinations to use the sleeper.

[devonexpress]

The trend is for later departures so I can see a later evening service being a distinct possibility - to complement the sleeper service, not replace it.b

Let's hope so - but if there's a later evening service that gets to Exeter at (for example) around 0030 and Plymouth an hour  later, it stands to reason that you can expect far fewer customers for those major destinations to use the sleeper.

The question is during the winter months how many people in Exeter & Plymouth use the sleeper to make it viable, and would a late evening Paddington to Plymouth and late Plymouth to Padd service take some of those passengers away, making it unprofitable? As apart from the holiday season, there is hardly a massive demand for a 7 or 8 coach sleeper train to Penzance if two of your key stops can get served by a train that arrives before or just after midnight.

[Witham Bobby]

 

23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55
24/05/18 23:45 London Paddington to Penzance due 07:55 has been delayed at Newton Abbot and is now 140 minutes late.
This is due to a fault on this train.
Last Updated:25/05/2018 07:03

[bobm]

Just arriving into Penzance now (09:34).


EDIT to add: Well the passengers did.  The sleeper stock itself is still blocking platform 3 at Newton Abbot.  Rescue loco is just approaching Totnes (09:55)

[RobT]

Sleeper rescued by 2 back-to-back HST^▸ (High Speed Train (Inter City class 43 125 units)) power cars as 5C99.

Picture on Devon Railway Photography Facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/Devonrailphotography/photos/a.197218983973976.1073741828.196879454007929/599640140398523/?type=3&theatre

With the down Riviera Sleeper failing at Newton Abbot and 57605 low on power, 43160 and soon to be off lease debranded 43141 were sent to rescue. Seen here powering past the South Devon Railway towards Totnes Station. 25th May 2018.

[grahame]

I know it's not what happened ... by just for a moment I thought ...

[rogerw]

I can remember travelling on the up sleeper in 1968 with two warships on the front