Night Riviera - merged posts, ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[devonexpress]

Considering the amount of failures, although it did improve for a short time, is it not time that GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) either axed the sleeper and added more later and earlier services, or what I expect in the new franchise, replacements by Class 68s and MK5s. Its completely unfair on passengers who may used this services for business, that they cannot guarantee the train will even get to Taunton let alone Paddington.

[IndustryInsider]

Apart from the Taunton failure on the 7th and understandable cancellations after the snow a couple of weekends back, I’m struggling to find many other instances where the sleeper has proved unreliable over the last few months?

Obviously the 57s will not go on for too much longer, and 68s would be the obvious choice to replace then, though I can see the carriages staying long into any new franchise given their recent refurbishment.  It would be a politically difficult decision to axe it.

[devonexpress]

Apart from the Taunton failure on the 7th and understandable cancellations after the snow a couple of weekends back, I’m struggling to find many other instances where the sleeper has proved unreliable over the last few months?

Obviously the 57s will not go on for too much longer, and 68s would be the obvious choice to replace then, though I can see the carriages staying long into any new franchise given their recent refurbishment.  It would be a politically difficult decision to axe it.

Depends really, the refurbishment was part of the franchise extension agreement, and considering the previous one was a touch of paint, i can only see it being a temporary measure. As regards to political issues, it all depends, with services getting faster and more frequent, and with GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) having the ability to put on later services once the 802s come into service, it may well be that there is no longer a requirement for a sleeper service.  Don't forget the sleeper has an hour or two wait at Exeter, and only goes up to 100mph. The latest train from Exeter current is 19:40 i believe, making Plymouth 18:40 ish, whilst the latest service from Newcastle leaves at 22:30pm. Give that GWR will have the ability to run smaller 5 car units on later services, I suspect many MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) and locals would rather have later and earlier trains, than a sleeper service.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm.  If I recall correctly, it was pressure from several West Country MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament), amongst others, that kept the Night Riviera sleeper service going. 

[devonexpress]

Hmm.  If I recall correctly, it was pressure from several West Country MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament), amongst others, that kept the Night Riviera sleeper service going. 

Yes 10 years ago, when we had a shortage of rolling stock and it wasn't economical to run later trains, Exeter & Plymouth have vastly grown in 10 years, also with IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s being able to run as 5 car units, there is less financial risk on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

[LiskeardRich]

It’s full most nights, so there is clearly a business case to keep it going.

[TaplowGreen]

Hmm.  If I recall correctly, it was pressure from several West Country MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament), amongst others, that kept the Night Riviera sleeper service going. 

Yes 10 years ago, when we had a shortage of rolling stock and it wasn't economical to run later trains, Exeter & Plymouth have vastly grown in 10 years, also with IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s being able to run as 5 car units, there is less financial risk on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

Exeter has experienced considerable economic growth, Plymouth (my home town) is sadly fading away although it's by far the biggest city in the Southwest and the most strategically significant with vast potential.

I can see the argument for the up sleeper, as it gives a perfect arrival time in London for a day's business, but the down sleeper is only really attractive for those heading for the depths of Cornwall.

If you want to make the down sleeper a "sell" for Plymouth, then it has to have more practical timings, if it did, it could be an asset, particularly since (ludicrously) the airport closed.

Being turfed off at 0515 is useless for tourists or business - I believe that "in the old days" a sleeper carriage was detached at Plymouth and those on board could slumber on until a more practical hour - this would make it far more attractive. Either that, or move the departure time back at Paddington a couple of hours, I'm sure it's not necessary for the sleeper to sit in Exeter and elsewhere for hours on end.

I noted (before Graham censored it  ) Hopwood's comments about increased partnership between GWR and the regions. Let's see if words translate into actions.

Otherwise (or preferably additionally) introduce a faster, early morning service Paddington - Taunton - Exeter - Plymouth.

[grahame]

I noted (before Graham censored it  ) Hopwood's comments about increased partnership between GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and the regions. Let's see if words translate into actions.

Not censored - embargo had shifted from 00:01 to 10:00 - site now live at http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/my-area/west.html and post returning to public view.

[stuving]

Not censored - embargo had shifted from 00:01 to 10:00 - site now live at http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/my-area/west.html and post returning to public view.

Are your sure the embargo wasn't delayed to a more suitable time for this kind of PR^▸ (Public Relations), like perhaps in six months (subject to review)?

[grahame]

Not censored - embargo had shifted from 00:01 to 10:00 - site now live at http://www.britainrunsonrail.co.uk/my-area/west.html and post returning to public view.

Are your sure the embargo wasn't delayed to a more suitable time for this kind of PR^▸ (Public Relations), like perhaps in six months (subject to review)?

Web site went live at 10 a.m. ... so it's out there.  Doesn't really feel like a good day for it though!

Mind from my feed just now

Total confusion at trowbridge. Screen is showing the 954 Swindon service is running but according to staff control doesn't know themselves. Now their signalling issues at Westbury

Okay now no trains from Westbury to bath until midday massive points failure all trains halted. Now telling people to catch the service bus to bath using the train ticket

So perhaps it's the very RIGHT time to say "we're gong to put this right"

[IndustryInsider]

I would be surprised if the sleeper was to be axed anytime soon, even with upcoming improvements to journey time and frequency of daytime trains - but I’ve been surprised before regarding decisions on the railway.

[rower40]

Would certainly expect the berth to be refunded (if bought separately) and as arrival into Reading and London was over three hours late; the fare too.

The Sleeper is a hotel on wheels.  If it does run, but arrives extremely late, (if only to ensure the stock is ready for the next day), then GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) will refund the fare, but will charge extra for the berth for "late checkout"! 

[1st fan]

Hmm.  If I recall correctly, it was pressure from several West Country MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament), amongst others, that kept the Night Riviera sleeper service going. 

Yes 10 years ago, when we had a shortage of rolling stock and it wasn't economical to run later trains, Exeter & Plymouth have vastly grown in 10 years, also with IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s being able to run as 5 car units, there is less financial risk on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway).

Exeter has experienced considerable economic growth, Plymouth (my home town) is sadly fading away although it's by far the biggest city in the Southwest and the most strategically significant with vast potential.

I can see the argument for the up sleeper, as it gives a perfect arrival time in London for a day's business, but the down sleeper is only really attractive for those heading for the depths of Cornwall.

If you want to make the down sleeper a "sell" for Plymouth, then it has to have more practical timings, if it did, it could be an asset, particularly since (ludicrously) the airport closed.

Being turfed off at 0515 is useless for tourists or business - I believe that "in the old days" a sleeper carriage was detached at Plymouth and those on board could slumber on until a more practical hour - this would make it far more attractive. Either that, or move the departure time back at Paddington a couple of hours, I'm sure it's not necessary for the sleeper to sit in Exeter and elsewhere for hours on end.

I noted (before Graham censored it  ) Hopwood's comments about increased partnership between GWR and the regions. Let's see if words translate into actions.

Otherwise (or preferably additionally) introduce a faster, early morning service Paddington - Taunton - Exeter - Plymouth.

From memory the axing of the Plymouth carriage was down to the extra expense of running it. I think they had to have a shunter & driver there to move the carriage which wasn't cheap apparently. I used it at least once and it was convenient but I think the shunting woke me up.

Anyone know why the service is only running to/from Plymouth tonight?

[LiskeardRich]

Only to Plymouth all week as line is closed west of Truro

[1st fan]

Only to Plymouth all week as line is closed west of Truro

Thanks, at the back of my mind I think I knew that