the problems with pacers

[whole diary]

[The SprinterMeister]

rumour has it, that we will be waving a 'fond' farewell to the pacers in the not too distant future.

May 2010 at the earliest. And thats assuming that Bombardier actually manage to produce some 172's for LOROL^▸ (London Overground Railway Operations Ltd) / London Midland to allow 150/1 to be released for use elsewhere.

[The SprinterMeister]

It's surprisng there wasn't a reccomendation to withdraw them  after South Winsford crash 1999.
 
87 versus a 14X,  the 87 shoved the both bodies clean off their  unframes.

Lovley quote from report "Bodies are secured to the underframe by "wire straps""

Also "it was fortunate there were no passengers aboard" the 142.

Atkins did a crash worhtiness report will see if I can find it, still looking on HMRI^▸ (Her Majesty's Railway Inspectorate) site.

If you do find that report, please post a link, I haven't found it after some considerable time.

The bodies were originally attached to the underframe by 4 Clouth metalastic mountings, just behind the door openings, roughly where the suspension would have been on the National Bus. These mountings has been supplemented by the so called 'Winsford' modification, which consists of additional longitudenal tie bars between the underframe and the body at the cab end of each car. Thus resisting the tendancy for the mountings to fail in sheer during a collision. On a 142 this can be identified by a prominent double row of rivets / fasteners on the door step between the door footwell and the saloon floor on the end doors behind the cab. All FGW^▸ (First Great Western) 142's have had this modification done as part of the work done to them at Railcare Glasgow. The 143's have also had a simalar modification done as part of the refresh project at Eastleigh.

[inspector_blakey]

The report is here:

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/HSE_Winsford1999.pdf

Surprisingly brief at only seven pages. The comments about pacers being bus bodies secured to their underframes by wire straps are towards the end in paragraph 20.

[The SprinterMeister]

The report is here:

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/HSE_Winsford1999.pdf

Surprisingly brief at only seven pages. The comments about pacers being bus bodies secured to their underframes by wire straps are towards the end in paragraph 20.

Its the report (HSL / WS Atkins / Halcrow) mentioned in paragraph 21 of that report that I'm interested in finding. Although the modification to improve crashworthiness are the one I have already mentioned. The wire straps mentioned were merely the original secondary means of body retention rather than the actual body support / attachment method.

A modified 142 fitted with the 'Winsford Mod' will be found here.

An unmodified 142 will be found here.

[broadgage]

They are about the worst trains on the network, but are cheap and better than nothing.
I would rather sit on one of those, than stand on a new shorter train with high density deating.

Ideally something more suitable should be provided, but even then I would not want to see them scrapped, best kept in reserve for peak flows and breakdowns.
The lack of spare trains for breakdowns or exceptional peak flows is a huge problem and could be partialy alleviated by keeping a reserve of older stock, as used to be done.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

they were built for short distance branch lines, exmouth, seven beach so on they were not designed for medium to long distance, to be fair with the exception of when they put one exmouth -barns fgw do not put these on really long routes however northern put them on some stupidly long stints

[Trowres]

Derailment of 142042 at Olive Mount (11-02-2009) confirmed as rear engine detaching and being run over by the rear wheelset precipitating the derailment. Engine apparently suffered a broken crankshaft and locked up with enough of a jolt to dislodge it from the mounting. Some sort of lubrication issue apparently.

Is there anything different about the engine mountings on a Pacer that would make the result of a rapid engine seizure different from what would occur with any other kind of DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)?

[John R]

they were built for short distance branch lines, exmouth, seven beach so on they were not designed for medium to long distance, to be fair with the exception of when they put one exmouth -barns fgw do not put these on really long routes however northern put them on some stupidly long stints

Taunton - Cardiff is a fairly long stint that's regularly operated by them.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

they were built for short distance branch lines, exmouth, seven beach so on they were not designed for medium to long distance, to be fair with the exception of when they put one exmouth -barns fgw do not put these on really long routes however northern put them on some stupidly long stints

Taunton - Cardiff is a fairly long stint that's regularly operated by them.

the 142's or 143's

[cereal_basher]

It is 143s, which are much nicer and even so there are far less pacers in the Bristol area now.

[Mookiemoo]

It is 143s, which are much nicer and even so there are far less pacers in the Bristol area now.

what s the diff between a 143 and a 142?  thought they both had bus seats

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

For the most part the 142 and 143 are the same main difference is looks and interior I don't know if they have the same build quality

[dog box]

It is 143s, which are much nicer and even so there are far less pacers in the Bristol area now.

what s the diff between a 143 and a 142?  thought they both had bus seats

Although both pacers they were built by completely different companies they look similar. In fgw land the 142s retain the original bus seats but the 143s have chapman high back train seats.
I was on a refurb 143 today..and i must say they are a lot nicer now

[The SprinterMeister]

For the most part the 142 and 143 are the same main difference is looks and interior I don't know if they have the same build quality

142 is a Leyland body mounted on a BREL^▸ (British Rail Engineering Ltd) underframe.

143 is a Walter Alexander body mounted on a Barclay underframe.

144 is the Walter Alexander body on the BREL underframe.

All re-engineered with Cummins L10 engines (vice Leyland TL11), Voith T211r transmissions (vice SCG four speed epicyclic) stronger suspension / axlebox components on the BREL underframes, replacement doors and Brakes that actually worked (SAB-Wabco) by BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) in the early 90's.

[dog box]

like i said..was recently on a refurb 143 but have also been on an ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) version...i am not the only one but the refurb version  seems less noisy at tick over and at speed ....any ideas??