First Class Weekend Upgrade

[whole diary]

[Mookiemoo]

Er - a small triangle thing that pretends to be a table!

I dont have a pic but they arent what most people think a table would be

Er - No, you're wrong. The 166's have four proper tables in standard class, located in the centre carriage - nothing pretend about them! The rest of the train is fitted out with the little triangular things which are designed to hold a drink, sandwich and crisps and not much else!

I stand corrected

I admit to having never been in the middle carriage!

[willc]

Maybe you're going to start condemning Chiltern for not having first class at all and denying you the right to bang on about their upgrade policy.
Not sure what you're on about here, so I'll assume you're being sarcastic...

Too right I was - as cerealbasher says, you can see if it's a Turbo, so you won't bother paying to upgrade, will you, so what's all this fuss in aid of?

And you keep going on about Turbo substitutions. When? If you mean the Sunday morning service towards London, that's been 166s for donkeys' years because of low passenger numbers and is shown as such on the timetable. On Saturdays, the first two trains from Malvern are operated by the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) which stable overnight at Worcester and Hereford and the 7.10 Hereford comes from Bristol, so no chance whatever of a Turbo on those, and the 8.43 from Malvern looked very much like an HST to me when I used it today.

And isn't it five tables in the 166 trailer? there's a pic here with four in sight http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p55689879.html and I'm pretty sure there's another one at the bottom right-hand corner as well. There are also shots of 166 first class and 166 and 165 interiors either side of this picture.

[devon_metro]

Maybe you're going to start condemning Chiltern for not having first class at all and denying you the right to bang on about their upgrade policy.
Not sure what you're on about here, so I'll assume you're being sarcastic...

Too right I was - as cerealbasher says, you can see if it's a Turbo, so you won't bother paying to upgrade, will you, so what's all this fuss in aid of?

And you keep going on about Turbo substitutions. When? If you mean the Sunday morning service towards London, that's been 166s for donkeys' years because of low passenger numbers and is shown as such on the timetable. On Saturdays, the first two trains from Malvern are operated by the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) which stable overnight at Worcester and Hereford and the 7.10 Hereford comes from Bristol, so no chance whatever of a Turbo on those, and the 8.43 from Malvern looked very much like an HST to me when I used it today.

And isn't it five tables in the 166 trailer? there's a pic here with four in sight http://anoraksia.ukgeeks.co.uk/p55689879.html and I'm pretty sure there's another one at the bottom right-hand corner as well.

Looks quite pleasant. Send some 142s, see how you moaners in Worcester think of them 

[willc]

Yes, that bit is nice, but most of the rest of standard class is 3+2, with seats for thin people without arms - not nice when the train is full. A four-car with 2+2 seats would be fine for most Cotswold off-peaks, which the 172s, if they ever happen, should be set up as.

[Btline]

But 172s are 100 mph trains, when all Oxford fasts/ Cotswolds should be 125 mph stock.

Then we can start cutting out the slack.

[inspector_blakey]

Bluntly, and at risk of making myself unpopular with some people, 125 mph stock for the Cotswold line is a waste given that it's only the PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) - DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) stretch where there's any hope of grazing 125 briefly. The issue of passenger comfort is a separate one - yes, I'd much rather travel HFD^» (Hereford - next trains) - PAD on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) because it's much more comfortable than a Turbo, not because it travels at 125 eather than 90.

A four-car, 100 mph unit with decent acceleration sounds eminently suited to the task of running off-peak services to me. For the remaining peak trans HSTs working "express" supplemented by Turbo-operated stopping Didcot - Moreton shuttles sound like an elegant solution to me. FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could be onto a good thing here.

[Btline]

Until all Oxford fasts are run with reliable 125 mph stock, there is no chance of the journey time being lowered.

Besides, Oxford is a city, and should have InterCity style stock to the capital!

[devon_metro]

Cambridge doesn't have intercity stock to London, don't hear many people moaning. The journey time to London is a mere 1 hours. Hardly worthy of taking away HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) that could be put to far better use rather than running half empty off peak.

[Btline]

Cambridge doesn't have intercity stock to London, don't hear many people moaning. The journey time to London is a mere 1 hours. Hardly worthy of taking away HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) that could be put to far better use rather than running half empty off peak.

It doesn't have to be HSTs. (although admittedly, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have nought else at the moment)

[IndustryInsider]

It was only the Adelante's that could really make gains on a Turbo on the Oxford to London stretch with stops at Reading and Slough. Almost all the gains of a 125mph train are lost with HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s due to their longer dwell times. There's no reason why a 100mph Class172 (or equivalent) could not be timed for around 50-55 minutes with the two station stops, making use of its more impressive acceleration than anything on the route at the moment.

With the linespeed towards Worcester at a maximum of 100mph after Didcot, the through timings from London and Worcester would be much quicker with a Class172 than anything a HST could reliably provide, so until IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) comes along perhaps Class172's (4-car with a door de-select feature for Hanborough and Honeybourne) would provide an answer to the lighter loaded off-peak and contra peak services?

[Btline]

Fair enough. I think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) should be aiming for 50-55 min schedules for Oxford for after the Reading project.

You've persuaded me. 4 car 2+2 100 mph 172s are better for off peak Cotswold trains.

[IndustryInsider]

You've persuaded me. 4 car 2+2 100 mph 172s are better for off peak Cotswold trains.

Whoa - we have a breakthrough!  And I'm sure we'd both also agree that retaining the Adelantes would have been even better.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

casting out the 180's was stupid, given time the reliability can and will be improved

[Btline]

Yes, something like the 180s would be ideal (perhaps even better than 172s, to give more possibility of service recovery along the Didcot to London stretch) - depends on the acceleration.

[willc]

casting out the 180's was stupid, given time the reliability can and will be improved

When? FGW^▸ (First Great Western) had them for eight years and never really got on top of the problems. And they've just gone straight back into use elsewhere without any attempt at re-engineering the things that keep going wrong.

The point about Cambridge is entirely valid - and I've made it myself before. FGW use HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) because they have nothing else with the capacity that's needed, not because there aren't types of trains out there that would be better suited to the route, though they would need electric wires - and would be able to manage a reliable 45-minute timing to boot thanks to EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) acceleration. The growth in demand on Oxford-Reading-London trains was why the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) came up with the idea of the high-density seating HST in the first place.

And while the off-peak Cotswold HST services tend to be quiet beyond Oxford, they are earning their keep between there and London. The numbers boarding the 8.43 from Malvern at Oxford at 10.25 yesterday would have filled pretty much every available seat in standard - it looked like a weekday morning peak crowd - so whatever new DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) materialise will need good autocouplers to split and join quickly at Oxford.