Paddington Underground station

[whole diary]

[Btline]

When the H&C line and the Circle lines are merged, does anybody know what will happen to the identification of the Paddington LU stations.

No station will have a dedicated line. How confusing for unfamiliar passengers!

And is the H&C line service remaining (i.e. in addition to the Circle line), or are they extending Met line trains on H&C paths?

And any chance of District line trains being extended to Kings Cross/ Moorgate's empty platforms?

_{NB: I have posted this in Across the West, as it could have implications for all. Hope you don't mind!}

[grandsire]

My understanding is that if you join a "clockwise" train at the old Circle line station it will only take you to Edgware Rd where you will have to change.  To get a through train from Padd to,say, Kings Cross you will have to go to the current Hammersmith line platform. Strikes me the is going to be a lot of irritation at Edgware Rd unless it will always be possible to have a cross paltform change of train in each direction ( which I think would mean the arriving trains from Padd then pulling out of Edgware Rd as ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) and coming back in to the next platform).

[Btline]

I understand the new Circle Line fully - Hammersmith to Edgware Road via a clockwise loop of the circle.

What I don't understand fully is the future of the H&C line, and the "identification" of Paddington's LU stations. Currently, one is a dedicated H&C station, but will soon be Circle Line as well.

I am also wondering whether LU are going to allow direct West to North Circle Line travel by extension of District line trains. (perhaps to the old Thameslink platforms at Moorgate)

[paul7575]

And is the H&C line service remaining (i.e. in addition to the Circle line), or are they extending Met line trains on H&C paths?

And any chance of District line trains being extended to Kings Cross/ Moorgate's empty platforms?

The H&C will carry on as now, but eventually nearly all trains will go to Barking, as the option to terminate short at Whitechapel is being lost because of Crossrail, which widens the platforms there as a normal 2 track station.  The mooted idea of swapping the Met and H&C eastern terminii is no longer happening, so Met to Aldgate stays the same.

Apparently there is no capacity to extend District trains along the north side of the circle, effectively the reason they have to stop at Edgware Rd now is because there are more trains joining the route from Baker St onwards, ie the Met to Aldgate.

The map will be basically the same as now, but with an additional yellow line down to Hammersmith through Paddington, and probably a terminating yellow line at Edgware Rd from the western Circle. This seems to be a fairly good unofficial! possibility, if you ignore the Chelsea - Hackney and split Northern Line of course:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3271/2536093115_d7c9a8999b_b.jpg
Paul

[plymothian]

It would seem that the only way to work out the best station to go to would be to study the diagram, to have something like@

<- Circle, District, Bakerloo
Circle, Hammersmith & City ->

would be confusing but so would something like

<- Circle (via High St Kensington), District, Bakerloo
Circle (via Kings Cross St Pancras & Wood Lane), Hammersmith & City

and it doesn't tell the whole truth as you can get to anywhere by changing at Edgware Road

I think maybe the best would be to bring back Paddington (Praed St) and Paddington (Bishops Road) but then the suburban station doesn't have an entrance to Bishops Road any more. 
Paddington (Suburban) maybe?

[Btline]

The current H&C station needs to be re-named, or merged with the other station.

Ditto for the Bakerloo's "Edware Road".

[RailCornwall]

The current H&C station needs to be re-named, or merged with the other station.

Ditto for the Bakerloo's "Edware Road".

How do you propose merging the stations then?

[Mookiemoo]

The current H&C station needs to be re-named, or merged with the other station.

Ditto for the Bakerloo's "Edware Road".

How do you propose merging the stations then?

Call them the same but different plat numbers - like I get the feeling many of the other tube stations are - some of them have such a long walk they have to be anouther station in rea;ity

[RailCornwall]

But they are NOT connected in anyway. To get from one to the other you have to leave and walk over Network Rail property.

[Btline]

RailCornwall, take a look at old LU maps (1990s, for example).

They showed a single "Paddington" underground station complex with the interchange "dot" linking all the LU lines.

Of course, since TFL^▸ (Transport for London) started putting a wheelchair symbol on all step free stations, it has become difficult to see which are interchanges and which are not!

[Mookiemoo]

But they are NOT connected in anyway. To get from one to the other you have to leave and walk over Network Rail property.

\

And does yiour AVERAGE punter notice the difference?

If I wasnt a pseudo train weirdo - only because I spend so much time on them - and I arrive at Paddington - how would I work out Bakerloo at PAd was a totally different station than H&C at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) -  translate that to any other station

How do I know what is network rail property and what isnt

[RailCornwall]

RailCornwall, take a look at old LU maps (1990s, for example).

They showed a single "Paddington" underground station complex with the interchange "dot" linking all the LU lines.

Of course, since TFL^▸ (Transport for London) started putting a wheelchair symbol on all step free stations, it has become difficult to see which are interchanges and which are not!

I agree with that but it showed something that was and still is wrong. You have to physically exit one and enter the other if changing to or from the H&C line at present. They are two distinct units, mapping them as one causes more confusion to the unfamiliar. Maybe Paddington North and Paddington South might be appropriate if renaming is required.

[Mookiemoo]

RailCornwall, take a look at old LU maps (1990s, for example).

They showed a single "Paddington" underground station complex with the interchange "dot" linking all the LU lines.

Of course, since TFL^▸ (Transport for London) started putting a wheelchair symbol on all step free stations, it has become difficult to see which are interchanges and which are not!

I agree with that but it showed something that was and still is wrong. You have to physically exit one and enter the other if changing to or from the H&C line at present. They are two distinct units, mapping them as one causes more confusion to the unfamiliar. Maybe Paddington North and Paddington South might be appropriate if renaming is required.

Trying to remove myself from familiarly - if I were going bakerloo to H&C and I was not familiar with the tube (in which case this is a moot topic) - having to go up to a station and down again would not bother me - have done the same in Germany many a time!  Call them Paddington and renumber the platforms

[plymothian]

Renumber the platforms to what?

C&D lines are platforms 1 and 2
B are platforms 3 & 4
H&C are 15 & 16 as part of the mainline numbering

so what do you suggest?

Paddington (1-4) and Paddington (15 & 16)

Though I expect nothing will happen as most tourists will head straight into the Lawn entrance as they do now, and will have to change at Edgware Road

[eightf48544]

I'm not sure I fully understand the reasoning behind these changes, I believe it's to improve the reliabilty of the Circle by allowing train sets to be easily swapped at Hammersmith without a special working ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) from Edgware Road.

In my mind the raison detra of the Circle line are  the corners otherwise there are H&C and Met service along the North side and District along the South.

Notinghillgate to Baker Street (Met Level)
High Street Kensington to South Kensington
Tower Hill to Liverpool Street

Which from oberservation seem to be the heaviest used parts of the route.

To take out Nottinghillgate to Baker Street seems very odd, especialy as the train will now reverse at Edgware Road to go to Hammersmith. Is this in competiton with the Wimbledon trains which are also reversing at Edgware Road?

Also how is the Inner rail (counterclockwise) service provided?  Do the H&C from Barking go Circle at Edgware Road do a turn round the circle and then go Hammersmith or still only to Hammersmith. The H&C service also provides a very important link from Whitechapel to Liverpool Street across the third side of the triangle as of course does the District Line service from Edgware Road to Earls Court/Wimbledon.

What ever way it works it seems to make Edgware Road very busy and congested and from what I remember of regular travel with the curent service pattern one often waited for a platform outside, travelling in either direction.

As an aside many years ago the District Line service to Edgware Road was extended to Faringdon I believe on the Friday before Bank Holidays can any one confirm?

Also the reason why the Edgware Road Wimbledon is C stock is that D stock is too big for top of the Circle.