Paignton Branch: Newton Abbot to Torbay - Torre, Torquay and Paignton (merged topic)

[whole diary]

[The SprinterMeister]

Blimey, devon_metro - if you don't know, nobody else will!   

No increase in the permitted speeds on the Paignton branch as a result of the last engineers blockade. There will be no further increases in speed until somebody puts in some CWR^▸ (Continuously Welded Rail) on the section between the former Aller Jn and Kingskerswell which is currently 45mph on jointed track on the down road.

[devon_metro]

Blimey, devon_metro - if you don't know, nobody else will!   

No increase in the permitted speeds on the Paignton branch as a result of the last engineers blockade. There will be no further increases in speed until somebody puts in some CWR^▸ (Continuously Welded Rail) on the section between the former Aller Jn and Kingskerswell which is currently 45mph on jointed track on the down road.

A nasty bit of track that, particularly on a 14x

[The SprinterMeister]

Blimey, devon_metro - if you don't know, nobody else will!   

No increase in the permitted speeds on the Paignton branch as a result of the last engineers blockade. There will be no further increases in speed until somebody puts in some CWR^▸ (Continuously Welded Rail) on the section between the former Aller Jn and Kingskerswell which is currently 45mph on jointed track on the down road.

A nasty bit of track that, particularly on a 14x

And if you relay that section and raise the speed to 60mph you get a worthwhile decrease in journey time as by the time the 14x hit the 60mph section at Kingskerswell they are running up the climb towards Torre and struggle to reach 50 before the 45mph limit resumes. They should easily reach 60mph running downgrade from the former Aller Jn.

[devon_metro]

Perhaps the relaying of the up line is the reason I have noticed faster journies. I wouldn't count on much more than the trimming of a few bushes in the next week long possesion that Network Rail imposes upon the bus branch, during school holidays. Genius.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Herald Express:

The government has refused to improve rail services to Torbay despite a plea by MP Adrian Sanders.

Mr Sanders, who is campaigning for better train links to the Bay, said Government ministers revealed it is quicker to travel the 400 miles north of the border than the 200 to Torbay. Mr Sanders said it takes under four hours to get to Scotland from London compared with more than four hours to the Bay. "It takes about three hours, 45 minutes to get from Kings Cross to over the Scottish border," he said. "The Government has been reducing journey times and increasing services to the north of England while increasing times and removing services from London to the South West. They should be improving services to the region rather than giving up and taking away services just because they do not do well."

In December, South West Trains' services to Torbay will be cut. Network Rail's route draft strategy also paves the way for First Great Western services to be removed from 2012.

Mr Sanders said despite Torquay and Paignton being mainline stations, the minister had effectively demoted them to branch line status, endorsed the removal of services and constituted a refusal to look at the impact on the tourist industry.

Mr Sanders asked Chris Mole, Parliamentary Under Secretary in the Department for Transport, to assess the effect on the tourism industry of the proposed cuts. Mr Mole said: "First Great Western operates two daily services to Torbay via Taunton which take around three and a quarter hours, and South West Trains operates two slower services via Yeovil which take around four and a quarter hours. The South West Trains services will be withdrawn in December 2009. Few passengers use these services to travel to Torbay from London, and regular faster services are available from London to Torbay by changing at Newton Abbot."

Mr Sanders replied: "I am not sure many other constituencies face a halving of their direct line services to London. The Waterloo service is cheaper than First Great Western and is used by people, including occasionally the MP for Torbay, to get from the constituency to London. Will the Minister review the situation in the light of the fears of the tourist industry that it will lose custom as a result of those cuts?"

Mr Mole said: "I assure the honourable Gentleman the number of trains on the Torbay branch line will remain the same, providing access to Torbay. The department has received no representations from South West Tourism on this issue."

Mr Sanders said this denial was in the face of several meetings between himself, the Torbay Line Rail Users Group, ministers and officials. He said: "The Government has been remorselessly eroding rail services to Torbay for years."

[signalandtelegraph]

From the Herald Express:

The government has refused to improve rail services to Torbay despite a plea by MP Adrian Sanders.

Mr Sanders, who is campaigning for better train links to the Bay, said Government ministers revealed it is quicker to travel the 400 miles north of the border than the 200 to Torbay. Mr Sanders said it takes under four hours to get to Scotland from London compared with more than four hours to the Bay. "It takes about three hours, 45 minutes to get from Kings Cross to over the Scottish border," he said.

From the Herald Express:



Mr Sanders asked Chris Mole, Parliamentary Under Secretary in the Department for Transport, to assess the effect on the tourism industry of the proposed cuts. Mr Mole said: "First Great Western operates two daily services to Torbay via Taunton which take around three and a quarter hours,

So its not quicker to get to Scotland then?

[devon_metro]

I was in awe at the sheer rubbish in this article when reading this morning. The sheer number of innacuaries and irrelevant snippets of info.

[Bob_Blakey]

Politicians! Don't you just love'em? It doesn't take a genius to have a quick look at the timetable and figure out that only a very few early-morning or late-evening journeys are timed at over 4 hours, and during the day around 3 hours (with 1 change) is possible.
And as far as I was aware FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are going to be filling the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) blanks in December.
So does Mr Sanders actually have a different agenda or is he just very good friends with Kermit?

[Henry]

 I suppose we will have to wait and see what happens, I know Teignmouth/Dawlish have lost a direct service to Paddington in the morning which used to be well used.
 Also with Torquay/Paignton losing 'dedicated' platform staff and the Torbay rail user group concerned, you wonder if their is some truth in the story.
 I believe FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have refused to comment.

[woody]

Given the massive annual hikes in franchise premium payements that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have contractually agreed to nothing can be discounted these days.Lets face it FGW are being expected to provide more and more for less and less,inevitably there are going to be casualties along the way if nothing changes.The further away you are from FGWs "centre of gravity" along the main Paddington/Bristol/Swansea axis the more apparent that is becoming.
 Take electrification for example,following the recently announced Great Western electrification ATOC^» (Association of Train Operating Companies See - here) is now calling for Bristol/Birmingham and Swindon /Cheltenham to be the next priority.So the further South West you are the more likely you are to be sqeezed.
Took a trip recently from Plymouth to Hereford on FGWs very generous Club 55+ and was surprised at the number of empty seats on trains in the Worcester area compared to the sardine like conditions we often experience in my own neck of the woods between Plymouth and Penzance.Saw a FGW Hereford/Paddington HST^▸ (High Speed Train) at Malvern Link depart virtually empty at a time of day that FGW HSTs arrive in Plymouth from Cornwall sometimes full and standing with commuters.There is clearly a 2 tier system at work on FGW,the dominating factor being the Monday/Friday commuter rush into/out of Paddington all else it seems is secondary to me particularly regards the far South West. 

[devon_metro]

Also with Torquay/Paignton losing 'dedicated'

I only ever see them Summer Saturdays!!

[devonian]

From the Herald Express:

That should be enough of a warning not to continue reading.

[devon_metro]

Or the mention of Adrian Saunders.

Anything to please the voters of Torbay, despite the failings of the previous Lib Dem establishment.

[inspector_blakey]

I'm confused. The article headline is about "cuts" to rail services. And yet the first sentence is about the government's "refusal to improve" services. Which isn't a cut, it's just not an increase. Can anyone explain this apparent contradiction to me?    That article almost makes it sound like Torbay is going to be entirely severed from the network come 2012, when I suspect it just means that the PGN - PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) services might be withdrawn (isn't it a bit early to be frothing about that just yet?). Oh the horror, if you're travelling from Paignton you might have to change trains to get to the olympics.

I was in awe at the sheer rubbish in this article when reading this morning. The sheer number of innacuaries and irrelevant snippets of info.

Now now d_m, we have repeatedly established elsewhere on this forum that local journalists never publish anything that is not rigorously factually accurate. Please don't post anything that might be construed as critical.

[The Grecian]

I like the sentence about reaching Scotland from Kings Cross in 3h45m. That may be true but given that there's no station till Dunbar and it's at least another 25m to Edinburgh, it isn't actually that useful. In the same way, I'd like to congratulate Great Western for having services that get to Stoke Canon in under 2 hours from Paddington. It'd just be picky to point out there isn't a station there.