(Rant) ID Required to prove I own a Disabled Railcard

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

Ok this really annoyed me

I was at Bristol Temple Meads today with my friend, We decided to go through the barriers to get to WH Smiths. Upon returning through the barrier I got through without any form of trouble whatsoever. However the person checking tickets took an unhealthy interest in my friends ticket, which was exactly the same as mine. He asked for the railcard, which he didn't have because it was mine. I showed them my disabled railcard. The sentance that followed suit was IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) way out of line.

"Have you got any ID Sir??"

It just so happened that I did, but thats beside the point. (I am a reasonably able bodied person) Because to ask someone to prove with photo ID that they own a disabled railcard, is IMO^▸ (in my opinion) saying, you don't look disabled, why have you got this railcard and where has it come from...??

Worth a moan to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) perhaps...??

Sorry to rant twice in a week... But I have never had any trouble or questions asked regarding my railcard from any member of rail staff, so why was it necessary on this occasion to prove it was mine...?? Maybe they were having a bad day...

[John R]

I'm not sure I understood this.

The way you've written it sounds like you showed them your railcard to get your friend through, which I presume isn't what you meant.

Relevant conditions are as follows:-

Your Railcard must be signed on the back as soon as you receive it to show that you agree to these conditions. You can then use your Railcard.
Your Railcard is owned by the Train Companies and, if you are asked, you must hand it to a representative of any Train Company.
The Railcard and tickets bought with it are not transferable and must not be given, loaned, or resold to anyone else. Only the named cardholder can use the Railcard.

Maybe the gateline man thought you were trying to use one railcard for another person?

[Btline]

What would have happened if you didn't have ID? Could FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have denied you access?

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

when ordering online the id check isnt that good... it is possible to order a card to which you are not entitled, its possible they just wanted to see physical id to verify you were entitled to have the card

[thetrout]

The Disabled Railcard is mine, but myself and another person (which in this case was my friend) can both get the discount, providing we travel together on identical tickets...! We bought the tickets from the ticket office in Taunton and they applied the discount to both mine and my friends ticket. Which is allowed.

The gateline assistant let me through the barriers, they decided to ask my friend for the railcard. But he was travelling with me and being the railcard holder, I showed the gateline assistant the railcard. That was when the ID question came into play.

So to summarise:

Myself and a friend were travelling together,
My friend is valid on my railcard as he was travelling with me for the whole journey
We both went into WH Smiths
The tickets we had were exactly the same, purchased at the same time, from the same person

I shudder to think what would have happened if I didnt have my ID handy...!

Hopefully i've made things a little clearer...!

Edit:

The way you've written it sounds like you showed them your railcard to get your friend through, which I presume isn't what you meant.

Not at all, Myself and my friend both made the Journey together

[Chris from Nailsea]

May I just say, I support thetrout in this matter entirely: he has followed the rules, terms and conditions of his railcard.

From my experience, over many years of travelling through Bristol Temple Meads, when I have generally found the platform and barrier staff to be friendly and helpful, I can only suppose that thetrout had the misfortune to meet the one member of staff who was indeed 'having a bad day'.

C. 

[moonrakerz]

The trout has my sympathies. Just another case of a "jobsworth, plus" I'm afraid. it would appear the both were traveling fully in accordance with the Ts & Cs of the card.
I don't know your disability, but I would have been tempted to cup my hand behind my ear and keep saying "pardon, speak up, I can't hear you" until he gave up !
There does seem to be a growing number of railway staff who - to be blunt - don't know what they are talking about.

My daughter recently traveled to Kent and back using the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service from BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to Waterloo. On the up journey the ticket inspector came round again after the train left Basingstoke, he saw my daughter and said "didn't you have a ticket to Basingstoke". My daughter then produced a second ticket from Basingstoke to Kent, the inspector then informed her that it would have been cheaper to buy a though ticket - which it wasn't, hence her having two tickets !
Exactly the same thing happened on the return journey, different inspector. Another passenger ("customer" just doesn't sound right !) sitting opposite remarked that he often had the same problem on that service.

[smithy]

in my opinion too many new staff who are jobsworths who do not understand all the conditions of railcards etc.

[inspector_blakey]

Sounds like you followed to rules to the letter, so it might be worth a complaint.

Be grateful though that we're not like the US (yet, anyway...) where on Amtrak intercity services you have to show a government-issued photo-ID to be allowed on a train at all.

[thetrout]

Thanks for the replies... I am tempted to write a letter because at the end of the day, there is no photocard issued with a Disabled Railcard. So in theory I could have refused to show them my ID. Infact, the only reason I carry my ID with me is to get into places like Wetherspoon Bars so I can get a coffee and use the free WiFi, because some of them ID you just to go through the doors

I normally find the barrier and platform staff at Bristol T M helpful, but I guess as Chris says, I was unlucky and caught a member of staff on a bad day!

I just felt embarrassed by it. I can only assume they were going with the idea of, "he's not got a walking stick, assistance dog or in a wheelchair, therefore I believe that railcard not to be his"

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

ok im going to say something that may prove to be unpopular.. and i dont mean offence by it, but lets just think what if a memo went out about copied railcards or railcard theft there are fake or stolen railcards out there... you shouldnt be offended mate there is no such person that 'looks like a criminal' now if you felt they were rude to you then thats another thing and you should complain, if not just think of it as being asked for id for drink they were just doing there job

[John R]

My daughter recently traveled to Kent and back using the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service from BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) to Waterloo. On the up journey the ticket inspector came round again after the train left Basingstoke, he saw my daughter and said "didn't you have a ticket to Basingstoke". My daughter then produced a second ticket from Basingstoke to Kent, the inspector then informed her that it would have been cheaper to buy a though ticket - which it wasn't, hence her having two tickets !
Exactly the same thing happened on the return journey, different inspector. Another passenger ("customer" just doesn't sound right !) sitting opposite remarked that he often had the same problem on that service.

To my mind, that is a very sharp inspector who is looking to spot people going further than their ticket allows. And nobody should have a complaint in that situation, if they are questioned. It happens to me very ocassionally as I have a split season ticket. So I would give him 10/10 for asking her to show her ticket beyond Basingstoke, though maybe deduct a mark or two if the following advice was dodgy.

[Chris from Nailsea]

... there is no photocard issued with a Disabled Railcard. So in theory I could have refused to show them my ID.

Hmm. I'm not convinced that the barrier staff's approach was appropriate at all.  

Just because someone can produce some sort of photographic ID (let's just use a Student Card, as an example), doesn't have any relevance when considering whether they are entitled to a disabled railcard (which doesn't have a photograph).

So what actually was the point of that member of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff asking for ID?  What was he going to compare it with, to 'prove' the validity of the disabled railcard??

[grahame]

I'm minded that there have been lots of problems with disabled car badges being 'transferred' to people who have no need for them / right too them, and I'm sure the same issue applies to railcards to a greater or lesser extent.  So I can understand staff being a bit concerned as to whether this or that particular person really has their own card.   Having say that, the powers that be have chosen NOT to add a photocard requirement to this particular railcard, and have written the rules so that they do not state that there's any right to ask for photoid.   So ... the staff member who asked for that ID appears to have been acting beyond the rules, and as such appears to have been in the wrong.  But - I have to be VERY careful here ... if you were asked "would you MIND showing me some ID, sir", then technically you were being given the right to refuse and it was a request, not a demand ...

It's personal choice, of course, but I might be tempted to put this single occasion (it was a single occasion, right?) down to experience - and use that experience to be better prepared as to how you'll handle it if it happens again. I'm also going to ask if any of our FGW^▸ (First Great Western) customer facing staff here can give any deeper insite?

[John R]

... there is no photocard issued with a Disabled Railcard. So in theory I could have refused to show them my ID.

Hmm. I'm not convinced that the barrier staff's approach was appropriate at all.  

Just because someone can produce some sort of photographic ID (let's just use a Student Card, as an example), doesn't have any relevance when considering whether they are entitled to a disabled railcard (which doesn't have a photograph).

So what actually was the point of that member of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) staff asking for ID?  What was he going to compare it with, to 'prove' the validity of the disabled railcard??

Chris - for clarity, my comment referred to the anecdote about the Basingstoke incident.

However, any railcard needs to be signed, and I presume that is because at any time a member of railway staff could ask you to sign to prove that you are the registered holder of the railcard.

Trout I do think you are making a mountain out of a molehill here. You had photo-ID, (and had you not had photo-ID, I'm sure you had bank cards etc which would have confirmed who you are and which would have been accepted), you showed it. Problem solved. Move on.

It's not the end of the world, bit like not getting a bacon bap between Taunton and Bristol sometimes. Worse things happen in life.