Air conditioning still not working

[whole diary]

[Btline]

If the air con is working, why can't the guard make an announcement and walk through the train shutting the windows?

By the next stop, hopefully the train has cooled down, so no-one thinks to open the window... If they try, a fellow passenger can just shut it ad say "air con is working".

[inspector_blakey]

Principally because, south of Oxford, 166 units run without guards under "driver-only" rules. Because there are no guards, windows for emergency ventilation can be opened by passengers.

[IndustryInsider]

Going back a few years the windows on 166s were very clearly marked as for opening in emergency only and the locking handles had little lead seals on them which would be broken were the window locks opened. Presumably though enough people simply opened them regardless which led to TT and subsequently FGW^▸ (First Great Western) not bothering to replace the seals any more.

They're still marked as to be opened for emergency ventilation only (which is a bit OTT^▸ (Open Train Times website)!), but they've never been CLEARLY marked as such. About 5 years ago the seals (which were plastic, not lead) were attached again, but they had all been broken within the month. The air-con is just not reliable enough and the passengers are just not patient/sensible enough!

[johoare]

...and tonight I was on one of the older style turbos (sorry I still don't know numbers) - the ones with all the windows that open and no attempt at pretending there will be air con.. There should be more of these until they get efficient air con..

[Chris from Nailsea]

... (sorry I still don't know numbers) - the ones with all the windows that open and no attempt at pretending there will be air con ...

Don't worry, Jo - I still struggle with numbers - and down in my neck of the woods, that description would be a 143. 

[Mookiemoo]

...and tonight I was on one of the older style turbos (sorry I still don't know numbers) - the ones with all the windows that open and no attempt at pretending there will be air con.. There should be more of these until they get efficient air con..

I can only distinguish between 165 and 166 -

165 - no tables in first class, internal doors have a personality complex, the windows dont stay shut hence the freezing tits off moment the other morning.

166 - tables in FC^‡(resolve) - almost acceptable - air con which will work if the windows are shut - windows dont flop open on the whole and internal doors dont have manic depression

[Btline]

It was easier to tell 166s and 165s apart under Thames Trains, as they were liveried differently.

But First have indiscriminately splashed dynamic lines on them, so they can say they have "refreshed" them.

Chiltern have improved their 165s. Ok, a longer franchise blah blah, but a company like First should be able to do an acceptable job.

[IndustryInsider]

I can only distinguish between 165 and 166 -

165 - no tables in first class, internal doors have a personality complex, the windows dont stay shut hence the freezing tits off moment the other morning.

166 - tables in FC^‡(resolve) - almost acceptable - air con which will work if the windows are shut - windows dont flop open on the whole and internal doors dont have manic depression

There's no difference with the internal doors, they are exactly the same pieces of kit and are just as likely to fail on a 166 as they are on a 165. They also get repaired in the same non-urgent manner. The windows on 165's can indeed be annoying, with the clasp mechanism sometimes failing after many months of being slammed shut - the 166's fare better as they have actual bars that can lock them properly shut.

To add to the differences a passenger might notice, 166's are carpeted throughout, 165's (except parts of set 101) are only carpeted in 1st Class. The 166's also have tables and 2+2 seating in one third of the middle vehicle. The middle vehicle also has a dedicated cycle/luggage area, and as most people probably know the 166's have two 1st Class sections totalling 32 seats.

Hopefully when the refresh does take place, tables will be added to the 165's 1st Class section (along with power sockets) to bring them slightly more in line as to what a 1st Class ticket holder might expect!

[johoare]

I can only distinguish between 165 and 166 -

165 - no tables in first class, internal doors have a personality complex, the windows dont stay shut hence the freezing tits off moment the other morning.

166 - tables in FC^‡(resolve) - almost acceptable - air con which will work if the windows are shut - windows dont flop open on the whole and internal doors dont have manic depression

There's no difference with the internal doors, they are exactly the same pieces of kit and are just as likely to fail on a 166 as they are on a 165. They also get repaired in the same non-urgent manner. The windows on 165's can indeed be annoying, with the clasp mechanism sometimes failing after many months of being slammed shut - the 166's fare better as they have actual bars that can lock them properly shut.

To add to the differences a passenger might notice, 166's are carpeted throughout, 165's (except parts of set 101) are only carpeted in 1st Class. The 166's also have tables and 2+2 seating in one third of the middle vehicle. The middle vehicle also has a dedicated cycle/luggage area, and as most people probably know the 166's have two 1st Class sections totalling 32 seats.

Hopefully when the refresh does take place, tables will be added to the 165's 1st Class section (along with power sockets) to bring them slightly more in line as to what a 1st Class ticket holder might expect!

..and will the refresh do anything to the air con on the 166s?.. because, to disagree with Mookiemoo, from my experience, I've never known the air con to work on the local trains (which I think I know now are the 166s)...

[IndustryInsider]

..and will the refresh do anything to the air con on the 166s?.. because, to disagree with Mookiemoo, from my experience, I've never known the air con to work on the local trains (which I think I know now are the 166s)...

165 and 166's work the local trains on a fairly interchangeable basis. From what I've heard/read the system will be given a bit of a clean and worn out components replaced. Let's make no mistake though, the biggest reason the system does not work is the fact the windows are routinely opened by punters. I've witnessed it happen many times even when the coach is being cooled perfectly well. This means that any benefit is instantly lost, and leads to a working system to start to fail sooner as it is constantly working full pelt to try to cool down the surrounding outside world. With the money available I would be surprised if there was anything but a negligible improvement.

[johoare]

..and will the refresh do anything to the air con on the 166s?.. because, to disagree with Mookiemoo, from my experience, I've never known the air con to work on the local trains (which I think I know now are the 166s)...

165 and 166's work the local trains on a fairly interchangeable basis. From what I've heard/read the system will be given a bit of a clean and worn out components replaced. Let's make no mistake though, the biggest reason the system does not work is the fact the windows are routinely opened by punters. I've witnessed it happen many times even when the coach is being cooled perfectly well. This means that any benefit is instantly lost, and leads to a working system to start to fail sooner as it is constantly working full pelt to try to cool down the surrounding outside world. With the money available I would be surprised if there was anything but a negligible improvement.

I tend to think it's the other way round, in that people only open the windows when the train is too hot.. Why would they want to open the window if the train was lovely and cool?  But it would be interesting to know if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have ever tested the temperature on one of these trains on a hot day, both empty and also full of hot people (with the windows closed obviously )?

[IndustryInsider]

I tend to think it's the other way round, in that people only open the windows when the train is too hot.. Why would they want to open the window if the train was lovely and cool?

Granted, the majority don't, but it only takes one. Human beings work in wonderfully strange ways. Why would anyone want to rip up a newspaper into a thousand pieces and drop them all over the floor? Why would anybody want to eat an orange and drop all the pieces of peel on the seat next to them? I saw both examples of this happening yesterday.

[Mookiemoo]

I can only distinguish between 165 and 166 -

165 - no tables in first class, internal doors have a personality complex, the windows dont stay shut hence the freezing tits off moment the other morning.

166 - tables in FC^‡(resolve) - almost acceptable - air con which will work if the windows are shut - windows dont flop open on the whole and internal doors dont have manic depression

There's no difference with the internal doors, they are exactly the same pieces of kit and are just as likely to fail on a 166 as they are on a 165. They also get repaired in the same non-urgent manner. The windows on 165's can indeed be annoying, with the clasp mechanism sometimes failing after many months of being slammed shut - the 166's fare better as they have actual bars that can lock them properly shut.

To add to the differences a passenger might notice, 166's are carpeted throughout, 165's (except parts of set 101) are only carpeted in 1st Class. The 166's also have tables and 2+2 seating in one third of the middle vehicle. The middle vehicle also has a dedicated cycle/luggage area, and as most people probably know the 166's have two 1st Class sections totalling 32 seats.

Hopefully when the refresh does take place, tables will be added to the 165's 1st Class section (along with power sockets) to bring them slightly more in line as to what a 1st Class ticket holder might expect!

..and will the refresh do anything to the air con on the 166s?.. because, to disagree with Mookiemoo, from my experience, I've never known the air con to work on the local trains (which I think I know now are the 166s)...

MOST of the Thames Valley stoppers seem to be 165's - 166 seem to more common on the Oxford/Cotswolds line - often double trains are 165 one end and 166 the other

But this is just six weeks of observation

[chemphys]

To add to the differences a passenger might notice, 166's are carpeted throughout, 165's (except parts of set 101) are only carpeted in 1st Class. The 166's also have tables and 2+2 seating in one third of the middle vehicle. The middle vehicle also has a dedicated cycle/luggage area, and as most people probably know the 166's have two 1st Class sections totalling 32 seats.

Easiest way I've found to tell the 166 apart from 165's is the windows. 166's only have opening windows on every other one, so if you see a full window, with no opening part, it's a 166.

If I see a 166 come in and I'm near the middle carriage, I will try and sit in the 2+2 section with tables (standard class). Although the seats are the same width, it just feels a little more spacious. Almost luxury. I have low standards...

[IndustryInsider]

Also, to add to my previous list - There's two toilets on a 166. Sadly this often means less urgency to repair one when it's faulty, so they quite often run around for weeks with only one functioning.