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Author Topic: 'FGW's ^50 million bailout revealed'  (Read 16720 times)
Btline
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« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2009, 22:56:01 »

So if you want to come back on the same day you can pay less, quite sensible really.
Why?
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RailCornwall
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« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2009, 23:05:13 »

So if you want to come back on the same day you can pay less, quite sensible really.
Why?

It promotes the use of the train as a leisure travel mechanism, a valid reason imo.
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Btline
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« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2009, 23:14:55 »

But why charge more for a months return? It doesn't put the TOC (Train Operating Company) out. So why charge more?
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TerminalJunkie
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« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2009, 23:20:25 »

How can you have the NFM (National Fares Manual)?

Because he put his hand in his pocket and bought a copy?
http://www.tsoshop.co.uk/bookstore.asp?FO=1241783&DI=615108
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« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2009, 02:20:58 »

I've tried downloading avantix all I get is virus's or porn, I have the mobile version or had but as the only mobile device I have now is apple it's not compatible anyone have a download link and will it work on vista
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Tim
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« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2009, 10:41:10 »

But why charge more for a months return? It doesn't put the TOC (Train Operating Company) out. So why charge more?

How should ticket prices be set?  If your starting point is that they should be set at costs + operating margin then different prices for the same journey make little sense. 

But of course many other factors are at play.  At one end there is a desire to price people off overcrowded train at the other end of the spectrum there is the desire to price people (especially leisure travellers) onto lightly used trains (charging a ^1 fare is better for the TOC than an emply seat - but only if you assume that the bargains are only being snapped up by people who would not otherwise have travelled).  There are also "political considerations" - promoting mobility and keeping commuters sweet.

The conflicting motivations and the fact that for regulated fares the solutions worked out 12 yeras ago are still set in stone, have resulted in the fares mess that we have today.

IMO (in my opinion) the system is starting to slowly breakdown because price diferentials have risen and passengers are using the net to get wise to various methods of saving money by using fares not really designed for them (ie the assumption that business travelers will always buy a flexible ticket is being erroded as more or these lucrative passengers are buying in advance or learning how to rebook). 

Two example:
1, A whole generation of net savy students is growing up thinking that advanced fare are the only way to travel whereas when I was a student 15 years ago the mentality and expecation was that so long as you had a YP railcard and kept out of London in the peak a reasonably priced supersaver or saver could be brought on the day for virtually any journey in the country (such freedom!)

2, Business is starting to realise that fares are too high to pay for their staff to travel without a very good reason.  My firm has offices in Bath and London.  15 years ago all new trainees starting in the Bath office were told that they needed to spend two non-consectuive days a week in London.  10 years ago it was 1 day a week.  Now it is "go to London once when you start to introduce yourself and then only go when you really need to - and try to get a cheap train fare when you do" - which works out at perhaps 6 times a year.  Perhaps 1000 fewer open returns per year are being bought by the company compared with 15 years ago.

The current system is not the best for passengers but I no longer think that it is neccessarily the most profitable system for the TOCs either because passengers are starting to rebel against some of the extortionate fares and complicated restrictions by finding a way around them or by not travelling at all. 

I suspect that the ressesion has caused passenger numbers to drop only very slightly if at all, but that revenue has dropped significnatly as people with jobs are still travelling but on cheaper tcikets.  When the recovery comes very few of those peopel will trade up again to the very expensive tickets.

There are plenty fo properous passengers and people on company expenses on many routes who are travelling on 30 quid advanced fares and who would willingly pay say 60 quid for a flexible walk-up fare, but who will not be willing to pay ^120 for that fare. 
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paul7575
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« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2009, 12:53:29 »

But why charge more for a months return? It doesn't put the TOC (Train Operating Company) out. So why charge more?

It's got a lot to do with fraud prevention. A Day return can only be used for one day.  With a bit of luck a month return can be used a few times, and regular travellers have sussed this out. So in a roundabout way, offering a day return at a slightly lower price than the month return avoids people being tempted.

Similar reasoning has led to period returns being basically unavailable within about 50 miles of London.

Paul
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Btline
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« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2009, 16:59:20 »

Tim, I agree with your post.

We are now reaching the point where if you are making a long distance journey, an Advance ticket is the only affordable ticket.

If I suddenly needed to travel to Glasgow tomorrow, I would probably drive. As I know that a walk-up ticket is about ^70 with a railcard. If I know in advance, I can get a much cheaper ^20 ticket, but I loose any flexibility.

If a walk-up fare was available for about half the price, ^40, valid on off peak trains, I would use that to travel - both if I was planning in Advance (as I have flexibility) and if I needed to impulse travel. TOCs (Train Operating Company) are loosing out: people are either paying for dirt cheap fares, or are driving.

Find a balance in the prices, and they'd get more passengers and more money.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2009, 17:05:41 »

I don't know anybody who would travel on a Voyager to Glasgow. What a harrowing thought!!
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Tim
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« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2009, 17:16:12 »

But why charge more for a months return? It doesn't put the TOC (Train Operating Company) out. So why charge more?

It's got a lot to do with fraud prevention. A Day return can only be used for one day.  With a bit of luck a month return can be used a few times, and regular travellers have sussed this out. So in a roundabout way, offering a day return at a slightly lower price than the month return avoids people being tempted.

Similar reasoning has led to period returns being basically unavailable within about 50 miles of London.

Paul

I've always thought that this was a non-ideal way to combat fraud.  I much prefer the continental requirement that you must date stamp your ticket for it to be valid (with heavy fines for unstanped tickets)
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