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Author Topic: The fate of LM 150s  (Read 10612 times)
devon_metro
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« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2009, 16:21:25 »

Indeed, vacman.

When you see a 2 car 142 bouncing towards you then its instantly a race to get a seat/on.

4 cars can be nice and cosy at certain times too.
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cereal_basher
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« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2009, 16:24:58 »

quids in northen get them the northwest is aloud to have a semi decent railway service

I don't know if that's a serious comment or not. 

If it's not then you should try catching a peak train to or from Manchester or Liverpool and see 200 people trying to cram on a single 142, with many already waiting for the next service instead.  In general the 142s in the North West are being used on very busy commuter services not the rural low-patonage lines like in Cornwall that they were intended for, before they got banned.  Leeds has been lucky though due to West Yorks Metro involvement and got 158s for most semi fast services (such as Blackpool, Hull and Nottingham) with the 155s and 156s originally used on those services cascaded on to local services alongside 3 car 144s and a few odd 150s and 153s.
Um, it does seem that the West seem to lose out when it comes to unit swapping time, and Northern always seems to win.
I'd hardly call lines in Cornwall low-patronage.
The mainline has absolutely ram packed XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and West services. HST (High Speed Train) services are busy as well.
St Ives is full and standing with four carriages, Falmouth very busy with two and Newquay has to have a coach on standby in the summer.
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northwesterntrains
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« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2009, 16:33:55 »

In reply to a couple of you I was referring to the number of passengers using Cornish branch lines when the 142s were built and passenger numbers overall, not just during the summer.  Obviously Cornwall and Devon are popular UK (United Kingdom) holiday destinations so it would be expected that a lot of people would use trains there in the summer.  Hence, why XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) have in the past hired HSTs (High Speed Train) from GNER (Great North Eastern Railways) or NXEC (National Express East Coast) for summer trains, rather than using their own Voyagers.
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ReWind
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« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2009, 16:47:09 »

I thought FGW (First Great Western) were getting 172's for the CDF» (Cardiff - next trains)-PHB route, therefore freeing up the current 3 car 158's to be put back to 2 car 158's, to run elsewhere.
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northwesterntrains
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« Reply #19 on: May 06, 2009, 16:50:48 »

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Um, it does seem that the West seem to lose out when it comes to unit swapping time, and Northern always seems to win.

Northern are the largest TOC (Train Operating Company) in the country and are using all old BR (British Rail(ways)) trains, expect for a few newish 333s for Leeds-Bradford which were introduced when the line was electrified.

Proportionally very few Northern trains have been refurbished and they have around 90 Pacers in service, some of which can run 2 hour journeys.

I think it's a common misconception in the South West that because Northern got 30 158s that they are used on a lot of local services, when most of them run Leeds-Nottingham, York-Blackpool (a former Transpennine Express route), Leeds-Hull and Sheffield-Hull which certainly aren't short routes and Northern only got these due to West Yorkshire Metro sponsorship.  It always seems to be forgotten where most of the former TPE (Trans Pennine Express) 158s (which many people rate as better than the 170s and 185s) went? Answer: First Great Western.

You should also remember the North West lost the 175s and the 180s were originally intended for Blackpool to London services but when First North Western's bid for that route failed the units went to First Great Western.
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northwesterntrains
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« Reply #20 on: May 06, 2009, 16:52:42 »

I thought FGW (First Great Western) were getting 172's for the CDF» (Cardiff - next trains)-PHB route, therefore freeing up the current 3 car 158's to be put back to 2 car 158's, to run elsewhere.

But now they're rumoured to be getting Northern's original allocation as well as their own.  Hence, many more services will benefit from new trains.
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6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01
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« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2009, 16:53:59 »

quids in northen get them the northwest is aloud to have a semi decent railway service

I don't know if that's a serious comment or not. 

If it's not then you should try catching a peak train to or from Manchester or Liverpool and see 200 people trying to cram on a single 142, with many already waiting for the next service instead.  In general the 142s in the North West are being used on very busy commuter services not the rural low-patonage lines like in Cornwall that they were intended for, before they got banned.  Leeds has been lucky though due to West Yorks Metro involvement and got 158s for most semi fast services (such as Blackpool, Hull and Nottingham) with the 155s and 156s originally used on those services cascaded on to local services alongside 3 car 144s and a few odd 150s and 153s.

 
Um, it does seem that the West seem to lose out when it comes to unit swapping time, and Northern always seems to win.
I'd hardly call lines in Cornwall low-patronage.
The mainline has absolutely ram packed XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and West services. HST (High Speed Train) services are busy as well.
St Ives is full and standing with four carriages, Falmouth very busy with two and Newquay has to have a coach on standby in the summer.


i used to live in marple, trust me i know what it can be like up there! but the reason i said ''semi decent'' is that although getting a seat is difficult the frequency of the trains is amazing... for example marple to manchester is now every 20 mins at peak times plus the hourly service from rose hill marple, manchester to stockport atleast every ten mins, coupled with the fact that there are so many stations your never far from one,im not saying its perfect up there but lets face it compaired to the southwest they get a decent service
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devon_metro
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« Reply #22 on: May 06, 2009, 16:56:54 »

Quote
Um, it does seem that the West seem to lose out when it comes to unit swapping time, and Northern always seems to win.

Northern are the largest TOC (Train Operating Company) in the country and are using all old BR (British Rail(ways)) trains, expect for a few newish 333s for Leeds-Bradford which were introduced when the line was electrified.

Proportionally very few Northern trains have been refurbished and they have around 90 Pacers in service, some of which can run 2 hour journeys.

I think it's a common misconception in the South West that because Northern got 30 158s that they are used on a lot of local services, when most of them run Leeds-Nottingham, York-Blackpool (a former Transpennine Express route), Leeds-Hull and Sheffield-Hull which certainly aren't short routes and Northern only got these due to West Yorkshire Metro sponsorship.  It always seems to be forgotten where most of the former TPE (Trans Pennine Express) 158s (which many people rate as better than the 170s and 185s) went? Answer: First Great Western.

You should also remember the North West lost the 175s and the 180s were originally intended for Blackpool to London services but when First North Western's bid for that route failed the units went to First Great Western.

I'm sure you northerners will appreciate those extra trains being with FGW (First Great Western) during the 6 weeks of hell imposed upon us during summer Wink
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r james
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« Reply #23 on: May 06, 2009, 17:06:38 »

SO now FGw are to gain a lot more 172s.... and then lose pacers and possibly 150s??

Seems to make sence to get them into one frachise.  Just a shame that the wales franchise ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))) cant get all the 150s, which are technicallymore suited to their valley lines service, and in turn replace all of their 142s.  This would then allow the oppertunity to replace every single pacer with Northern with a brand new style unit before regulations about access etc change. 
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6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01
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« Reply #24 on: May 06, 2009, 17:16:41 »

SO now FGw are to gain a lot more 172s.... and then lose pacers and possibly 150s??

Seems to make sence to get them into one frachise.  Just a shame that the wales franchise ATW (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC (Train Operating Company))) cant get all the 150s, which are technicallymore suited to their valley lines service, and in turn replace all of their 142s.  This would then allow the oppertunity to replace every single pacer with Northern with a brand new style unit before regulations about access etc change. 

which lines are the pacers technically suited too?  Cheesy
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northwesterntrains
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« Reply #25 on: May 06, 2009, 17:20:33 »

I'm sure you northerners will appreciate those extra trains being with FGW (First Great Western) during the 6 weeks of hell imposed upon us during summer Wink

If you mean the 180s, then the 175s were just as bad before Wales & Borders took them.  We had 50 year old 101s running medium length journeys to cover for the 175s and the timetables had to be drawn up with quick turnaround times (about 5 minutes at each end, before the days of generous recovery time.)  That meant not only would could you expect 55% of trains more than 10 minutes late on some lines but a 50 year old train turned up when it arrived.
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northwesterntrains
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« Reply #26 on: May 06, 2009, 17:28:08 »

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i used to live in marple, trust me i know what it can be like up there! but the reason i said ''semi decent'' is that although getting a seat is difficult the frequency of the trains is amazing... for example marple to manchester is now every 20 mins at peak times plus the hourly service from rose hill marple, manchester to stockport atleast every ten mins, coupled with the fact that there are so many stations your never far from one,im not saying its perfect up there but lets face it compaired to the southwest they get a decent service

I agree on some services the frequency is very good, there's also the Manchester-Huddersfield-Leeds section of the North Transpennine services. 

Stockport's frequency is very high as it was thought there were regulations saying passenger trains could not go through Stockport and had to stop.  However, Arriva asked for proof which couldn't be provided and their Manchester-Bristol services now go through Stockport.

However, you should note that there is now only an hourly peak stopping service to Crewe from Manchester and only an hourly train in the peaks to Chester via Altrincham (both used to be 3 per hour in the peaks at privitasation.)  These weren't cut back because of poor passenger numbers but because Virgin Trains requested extra paths through Stockport.
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dog box
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« Reply #27 on: May 06, 2009, 17:53:36 »

Pacers well suited to trundling up and down the Beach.....
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paul7575
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« Reply #28 on: May 06, 2009, 18:55:33 »

Um, it does seem that the West seem to lose out when it comes to unit swapping time, and Northern always seems to win.

But not any more - the whole point of this discussion is that originally both FGW (First Great Western) and Northern were down for some 172s and some LM (London Midland - recent franchise) 150s.  But recent announcements, and Roger Ford's revelation of the details in the ITT (Invitation to Tender), show that it is now FGW down for mostly new DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) (possibly more 172s), and Northern are assumed to be getting ex LM 150s only.

Paul
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Don
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« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2009, 19:37:33 »

which lines are the pacers technically suited too?  Cheesy

The scrap line. 

Sorry couldn't resist
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