Fare Evasion

[whole diary]

[vacman]

Barriers are a god send and it's suprising aswell how many people don't think to just buy a ticket to th next stop and when they see barriers they buy their correct ticket.

(a) Forces the people who can't be bothered to queue, or those in a hurry, or simply those who forget to buy a ticket. Most of these people are law abiding, and pay the full fare. Result, less ticket selling on the train. Better checks.

Or - forces law abiding people who are held up who are wanting to pay to miss their train because they are running late and cant queue and the barriers do not let them through

In a previous life when I cycled from egham to slough, I missed the train a few times because the ticket was in my back pack, the train was on the platform, and I had to stop to fish it out

A few times in the last three weeks, if I hadnt had the season going one way, id have missed the train going the way I wanted to go (this will be resolved when I renew my season on the 26th)

Well surely if you were doing it every day then you may well have it ready as you know you will have to show it??? once is unlucky, twice is getting daft but three times is just......................................... thats not the fault of the barriers, it's you!!!

[Mookiemoo]

Barriers are a god send and it's suprising aswell how many people don't think to just buy a ticket to th next stop and when they see barriers they buy their correct ticket.

(a) Forces the people who can't be bothered to queue, or those in a hurry, or simply those who forget to buy a ticket. Most of these people are law abiding, and pay the full fare. Result, less ticket selling on the train. Better checks.

Or - forces law abiding people who are held up who are wanting to pay to miss their train because they are running late and cant queue and the barriers do not let them through

In a previous life when I cycled from egham to slough, I missed the train a few times because the ticket was in my back pack, the train was on the platform, and I had to stop to fish it out

A few times in the last three weeks, if I hadnt had the season going one way, id have missed the train going the way I wanted to go (this will be resolved when I renew my season on the 26th)

Well surely if you were doing it every day then you may well have it ready as you know you will have to show it??? once is unlucky, twice is getting daft but three times is just......................................... thats not the fault of the barriers, it's you!!!

On this - I will admit its my fault but I do shave things close to the wire!  However in the last 2.5 weeks, its not all my fault - I'm learning how long the buses take to get to thestation - company operates a private shuttle - they guarntee departure time but not arrival - its trial and error!

However it doesnt give you a warm fuzzy feeling when the train is coming on the platform, you have a ticket but you  have to prove it before getting through the godamn barriers.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmm.  The problem, as I see it, is that you just can't rely on the train being a few minutes late, these days: FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are just so bluddy punctual now! 

[Mookiemoo]

Barriers are a god send and it's suprising aswell how many people don't think to just buy a ticket to th next stop and when they see barriers they buy their correct ticket.

(a) Forces the people who can't be bothered to queue, or those in a hurry, or simply those who forget to buy a ticket. Most of these people are law abiding, and pay the full fare. Result, less ticket selling on the train. Better checks.

Or - forces law abiding people who are held up who are wanting to pay to miss their train because they are running late and cant queue and the barriers do not let them through

In a previous life when I cycled from egham to slough, I missed the train a few times because the ticket was in my back pack, the train was on the platform, and I had to stop to fish it out

A few times in the last three weeks, if I hadnt had the season going one way, id have missed the train going the way I wanted to go (this will be resolved when I renew my season on the 26th)

Well surely if you were doing it every day then you may well have it ready as you know you will have to show it??? once is unlucky, twice is getting daft but three times is just......................................... thats not the fault of the barriers, it's you!!!

On this - I will admit its my fault but I do shave things close to the wire!  However in the last 2.5 weeks, its not all my fault - I'm learning how long the buses take to get to thestation - company operates a private shuttle - they guarntee departure time but not arrival - its trial and error!

However it doesnt give you a warm fuzzy feeling when the train is coming on the platform, you have a ticket but you  have to prove it before getting through the godamn barriers.

Especially when your next train - unlike the reading/oxford commuters - might be an hour or more!

And becaus eyou commute so long, it CAN make all the difference getting the 17:15 bus as opposed to the 16:55 - it the appearance that can make the difference.,  The 16:55 gets you there in plenty of time - the 17:15 - gets you the most of the time.

I am just opposed to barriers.As long as tickets can be sold on trains, have no barriers.  Its confusing especially when rules and penalties are not enforced - maybe if TM^‡(resolve)'s had the rule - sell a ticket on the train, make it a penalty fair - ok thats the rules - we know it

OR - make the rule - you have to have a ticket before you board - if you dont its a ^5000 fine and there are NO excuses - 100%  no holds barred.

THAT is a penalty

As I said last year - the number of times my tickets were check was zero - even tonight a TM who hadnt seen me for six months just started up convo with me - didnt bother checking my ticket.  I have a season so no issue but..............

As I've said - I would never do it but relying on barriers I could have gotten away with - for over a year - a charlbury to reading tickets up (ticket inspector got on at charlbury)  and a reading to reading west down - no ticket check after PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) at all.

Wouldnt do it because I pay may fare and if I gt found out I'd lose the trust of the staff on that line which works in my favour more often than not.

Barriers are NOT the solution

[Tim]

Barriers are a god send and it's suprising aswell how many people don't think to just buy a ticket to th next stop and when they see barriers they buy their correct ticket.

I agree. If there are barriers, it:

(a) Forces the people who can't be bothered to queue, or those in a hurry, or simply those who forget to buy a ticket. Most of these people are law abiding, and pay the full fare. Result, less ticket selling on the train. Better checks.

(b) Gives fare dodgers a (perhaps false) sense of high ticket checking, so they are put off and pay the full fare.

(c) Improves security at the station, and can be used for passenger counts/ overcrowding figures (a la London Midland).

I think all major stations should have barriers, and "staff barriers" should appear at other stations at random times, as well as RPIs^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) on trains.

my comments are:

(a) How much would it cost NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/NR to cut a couple of minutes off the journey time between, say Bristol and London by increasing line speeds or capacity or accelartion of some other engineering solution?  Quite possibly many millions more than can be afforded.  But train speeds are not the only factor influencing door to door journey time and you could cut a couple of minutes off everyones journey by removing barriers and selling tickets on the train.  Employing more on-train checkers and ticket sells would be cheaper than the engineering solutions.

(b) A false sense will not last long when the potential fare dodger sees the reality.  The existance of "dumbelling" and reusing tickets and otehr such scams demontrates that fare dogders are often not stupid. 

(c) the "improves security" arguement is the one that annoys me the most.  Most disorder, crime and bad behavious happens later in the evening when the barriers are left open and fewer on-train checks make for a lower staff presence on board and worse security for passengers and staff on the train.

[IndustryInsider]

Barriers are NOT the solution

They're not the solution. But they are a part of the solution.

[Tim]

Barriers are NOT the solution

They're not the solution. But they are a part of the solution.

I agree.  Other parts of the solution are:

1) Good on-train checks.  Motivate existing staff to do thsi where needed and employ new staff where needed.
2) working TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine), ticket offices
3) consistant policy and message in dealing with offenders
4) Simple fares and restrictions.  the current mess both causes honest travellers to get things wrong by mistake (which makes it hard to argue against staff leneicy/descretion on some occassions which undermines point 3)) and provides legal and illegal loopholes which encourages evasion and breeds an attitude of trying to away without paying the normal fare.  Fare dodgers know that things are complicated and will sometimes get things wrong by mistake and claim it as a mistake.  Simple fares would also make the guard's job easier and quicker and he would therefore have more time for checks.  Also wait to buy tickets would be shorter. 
5) Proper support for staff by BTP^▸ (British Transport Police).  No use a Guard trying to throw an offender off the train if there isn;t a policeman at the next station to help him do this.

and barriers where used need to be used properly - ie there needs to be enough of them, they need to be manned by friendly staff, they need to be operational at all times, they need to be used in a customer-friendly and intellient way

I'd have more respect for TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) installing barriers if they also addressed the list above rather than installing barriers and then annoucing that they are "tackling fare evasion"

[moonrakerz]

I agree.  Other parts of the solution are:

2) ..............., ticket offices

.....................preferably ones that are open !

On a related note: I liked the "Ticket Office Opening Hours" table in the back of the good old Timetable Book E.
This states that Filton Abbey Wood is "Closed" on Sats & Suns, but Weekdays that it is "Unstaffed" - is there some subtle difference here that I am missing ?

[Brucey]

On a related note: I liked the "Ticket Office Opening Hours" table in the back of the good old Timetable Book E.
This states that Filton Abbey Wood is "Closed" on Sats & Suns, but Weekdays that it is "Unstaffed" - is there some subtle difference here that I am missing ?

Must be self-service or help yourself on weekdays

[cereal_basher]

Barriers cut evasion full stop. They are not going to go. Someone buying a ticket to get through the barrier than someone not buying a ticket. For that reason they are going to stay around. And it is a good thing.

[Btline]

Barriers cut evasion full stop. They are not going to go. Someone buying a ticket to get through the barrier than someone not buying a ticket. For that reason they are going to stay around. And it is a good thing.

Agreed. Enhanced on-board checks and barriers at major stations is the best way of reducing evasion.

Having no barriers would hugely reduce collected revenue, as guards would not be able to sell tickets to a whole HST^▸ (High Speed Train) before Reading.

[RailCornwall]

The question has to be asked though why Switzerland which has the most efficient railway in the world has NO barriers whatsoever.

[vacman]

The question has to be asked though why Switzerland which has the most efficient railway in the world has NO barriers whatsoever.

Is it as intensive as the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)
are there as many un-desireables as the UK?, Are there as many Passengers? do they have a Penalty fare type system? One thing about UK residents is that 90% seem to think that the world owes them a living, that is the society that has forced such measures such as barriers and Penalty fares!

[bleeder4]

The question has to be asked though why Switzerland which has the most efficient railway in the world has NO barriers whatsoever.

It's a whole different state of being over in Switzerland though, no one would ever dream of even contemplating fare evasion, it's such an alien concept to them. The Swiss rail system really does put ours in it's place - I remember last time I was there there'd been an avalanche on the line overnight so they just fitted a massive snowplough to the front of the train and it was 2 seconds late pulling out of the station - over here you'll have leaves on the line causing delays of hours.

[Mookiemoo]

The question has to be asked though why Switzerland which has the most efficient railway in the world has NO barriers whatsoever.

Is it as intensive as the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)
are there as many un-desireables as the UK?, Are there as many Passengers? do they have a Penalty fare type system? One thing about UK residents is that 90% seem to think that the world owes them a living, that is the society that has forced such measures such as barriers and Penalty fares!

Which is why I favour the following system:

1. Simple fares
2. Ability to pay on board if you actively seek a TM^‡(resolve) - even if it means standing in the buffet or near the end cab
3.punitive penalties thaT ARE ALWAYS  ENFORCED if the above doesnt apply