FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

I've said it before but its worth saying again - first class travel isn't a birth right or social apartheid. Anyone can just buy an upgrade if they are so peeved with Standard provision. Perhaps FGW^▸ (First Great Western) would be better served by encouraging more people to upgrade rather than pleasing no one with the current situation.

This completely misrepresents the situation - no one is suggesting that 1st class travel is a "birthright", the argument is merely that where extra space exists, whatever that space is, it should be able to be utilised to best effect to benefit the majority of customers - customers who are currently paying premium prices for an increasingly unreliable, ridiculously and often dangerously overcrowded services.

I don't necessarily agree with Alok Sharma's position but it is an option worth investigating - it is not "ridiculous" to a lot of people it sounds like plain common sense.

I repeat that had FGW acted in a less churlish manner and simply provided the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) with the information he requested, this petition would probably never have been launched.

Attitudes displayed by some posters on here underscore the contempt with which FGW treats its customers.

[didcotdean]

When it comes down to it, the real issue is the substantial growth especially in commuter usage which means that demand is much more peaked on the services than it was even 15 years ago. There are still dozens of unused first class seats trundling around in the middle of the day in the majority of main line trains - but there are also generally standard class seats available as well so long as it hasn't been a day of disruption. Peak time and especially on Friday evening there is shortage of everything. Additional stock to match demand is long overdue. I bet when the hi density carriages were created it was thought they would soak up the demand until replacement, but the usage rise has continued.

Maybe they should have just reclassified a carriage as for first class and season ticket holders only ...

[ellendune]

Dropping the Reading stops isn't the answer. There is a significant passenger flow from Reading to points west.

I know, I was just making as suggestion as ridiculous as that made by the Reading MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) 

As bobm says, enforcing the pick-up only restrictions is what is needed. A month long carrot and stick operation should educate the Reading commuters.

Devil's advocate here. Maybe, on the odd occasion, run fast to Swindon or Taunton, with a relief service from Reading. Anyone from Paddington over-carried to Taunton or Swindon would then think twice about again boarding a service that isn't advertised to call at Reading.

And FGW^▸ (First Great Western) did almost that - there was a 19:12 departure to SWA^» (Swansea - next trains) (first stop BPW^» (Bristol Parkway - next trains)) proposed, last year sometime, which got as far as having paths, staff, trains in place to act as a relief for the 19:15 RDG^‡(resolve), SWI^» (Swindon - next trains) stopper. For once a great idea from the ToC, only for it to be vetoed at the last minute by DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) - it was so last minute that tickets/reservations were on sale at one point & it was included in the online timetables...

Lets face it there are not enough seats between Reading and London at the moment in the peak. So until new trains come any restrictions on one type of service will move the overcrowding onto others.  Restrictions on long distance services will lead to more overcrowding on local trains stopping at Maidenhead, Taplow etc. 

[ellendune]

Maybe they should have just reclassified a carriage as for first class and season ticket holders only ...

Why season ticket holders?  They pay least per journey - less even that super off peak. 

GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) used to have carriages for Silver Service - Full fare paying Standard Class Passengers.  That is another way of rewarding those who are paying a premium price. 

[broadgage]

Maybe they should have just reclassified a carriage as for first class and season ticket holders only ...

Why season ticket holders?  They pay least per journey - less even that super off peak. 

GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways) used to have carriages for Silver Service - Full fare paying Standard Class Passengers.  That is another way of rewarding those who are paying a premium price. 

Agree, season ticket holders receive substantial discounts and mainly use peak time services. I do not see why regular travellers should not receive a MODEST discount, but at present season ticket holders usually pay much less than half the fare per mile paid by other peak time users.
From time to time season ticket holder groups expect priority boarding, or other more favourable treatment than those who have paid the full fare. If anything, those paying heavily discounted fares should be LAST in the queue for seats, not first.

[didcotdean]

Yes I know that some people consider season ticket holders to be the spawn of Satan

However, this was a suggestion not made of any particular merit in itself, apart from the political dimension.

They can of course reserve seats for a month ahead already but this is not really widely publicised.

[Super Guard]

Wouldn't this info have to be tracked as a declassification triggers refunds for 1st class ticket holders?

TM^‡(resolve) informs control so info is logged for this purpose.

Trains do not have dozens of 1st class seats free while standard is F&S, certainly not now the 1st class changes are happening.

I understand the commuters frustration, but the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) network does not end in the LTV^▸ (London [and] Thames Valley) area.  Why should someone travelling 5 hours to PZ lose their first class seat initially, so a Reading commuter can sit down for their (timetabled) 25 minute journey, and i'm sorry but any campaigning from MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) in the next 6 months is all a bit too late in the day IMO^▸ (in my opinion) and just pure electioneering - especially when they seemingly ignore the changes currently going on with the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) fleet.

[ChrisB]

Hear,. hear to all of that.

Chiltern commuters stand for longer than Reading ones do....

[broadgage]

Last year, not long before Christmas, a season ticket holder demanded that I give up my first class seat for them because "they had paid thousands of pounds" I declined, especially as I had paid the full first open fare ! and booked.
I think that I may have enraged them by stating that season ticket holders should be REQUIRED to stand if someone paying full fare wants the seat.

To return to first class travel in general, IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) NO discounted tickets should be sold for services that are regularly overcrowded. Since the downgrade of first class, I have regularly seen the "Golden Hind" with standing in first, yet AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) discounted tickets are still sold for this service.

[IndustryInsider]

Chiltern commuters stand for longer than Reading ones do....

And of course Chiltern commuters don't have the option of paying for an upgrade to first class*.

* Apart from the two long distance Mainline trains with the Business Zone that operate at roughly commuting times each way.

[ChrisB]

There's four of those now!

1647, 1715, 1815 & 1847 in evening peak, for example

[John R]

To return to first class travel in general, IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) NO discounted tickets should be sold for services that are regularly overcrowded. Since the downgrade of first class, I have regularly seen the "Golden Hind" with standing in first, yet AFAIK^▸ (as far as I know) discounted tickets are still sold for this service.

Indeed, looking at Friday 23rd Jan there are standard class seats available to Taunton at ^49.40 on the 1733 and 1803 ex PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), and 1st class at ^92.80, somewhat less than the standard anytime fare of ^113. Just seems mad if those trains are going to be heavily overcrowded.

[ChrisB]

But they might be under utilised without these Advance fares?...

[stuving]

Indeed, looking at Friday 23rd Jan there are standard class seats available to Taunton at ^49.40 on the 1733 and 1803 ex PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains), and 1st class at ^92.80, somewhat less than the standard anytime fare of ^113. Just seems mad if those trains are going to be heavily overcrowded.

Unless there are just a few of them - a kind of PR^▸ (Public Relations) exercise, at minimal cost. You'd need to see how long that offer lasts.

[IndustryInsider]

There's four of those now!

1647, 1715, 1815 & 1847 in evening peak, for example

Fair enough.  I wasn't including the 16:47 as a commuter train, though I guess it's borderline, and the 18:47 isn't included on the list on their website.