FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

Willing to accept the comments on stopping TV services being overcrowded. It's not my area so was only a suggestion

although the excess would be more than a fiver

Yes you did suggest that. Sorry I must have missed that.

I suggested ^2.50 - ^5.00 for two reasons.

Currently the HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) Upgrade is ^3.00 (IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly))

The current Season Ticket price between Reading and London Termini for 12 Months is ^4,088.00
Take 25% off that season ticket = ^3270.40
The difference being ^817.60

Divide the difference by 365 Days a year = ^2.24 Per day for a theoretical HSS^▸ (High Speed Services) Upgrade. Hence my suggestion of ^2.50 - ^5.00

If we do it over 40 weeks which how many weeks you pay for a season IIRC is ^2.92

So ^5.00 is realistic. Perhaps maybe even ^10.00 Not sure I would be tempted to pay ^10.00 to get somewhere in 30 minutes as opposed to 60+ But there are those who will


I agree with the comments that staff seem to be saying. They are getting a backlash over the decision. Perhaps Mk2^▸ (Mark 2 coach) Carriages should be used interim until Crossrail which may solve the problems. But then I am compelled to suggest even Crossrail might not be the full solution. Just part of it

Interesting, but not a massive surprise that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are experiencing a backlash. Did the train manager suggest what form this backlash was taking? Complaints to management or more people just voting with their feet?

I *think* the backlash is both of those mentioned. AND First Class Pax taking it out on Customer Facing Staff. I've seen it happen twice recently. One occasion this lady was giving the TM^‡(resolve) a REALLY hard time. For some reason I saw red and defended the TM as this lady was being rather horrible. That and I got fedup with her shouting and ranting and raving. You couldn't make up that she was sat in Coach M

As for the Quiet Carriage. I think Virgin Trains and Eastcoast are the only Long Distance TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) to have Quiet Carriages in First Class left. So in all honesty, whilst the reduction in seats is in my opinion a disaster waiting to happen. I think loss of the Quiet Carriage isn't necessarily an issue. South West Trains, East Midlands Trains etc are long distance InterCity Operators that don't have Quiet Carriages in First Class

[JayMac]

I've had the layouts confirmed.....

The micro-buffets will have Standard seating either side of it, with the 1st class being the 1.5 coaches nearest the PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) buffers.

On the other sets, the full size buffet coach will be moved to sit second coach from the buffers, oriented that it's 1st class seating buts onto to the coach nearest the buffers with full 1st seating. The coach being converted to Standard then being the third coach from the buffers.

So, no change from what I was told by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) back in October 2013 then?  

Information which I posted in this same thread back then:

I have been told that the make-up of FGW HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets after the changes will be:

Sets with a full buffet:
[London end] Class 43 - TF - TRFB^▸ (Trailer Restaurant First Buffet (Mark 3 coach type)) - TS - TS - TS - TSD - TS - TSG - Class 43 [Country end]

Sets with a micro buffet:
[London End] Class 43 - TF - TC^‡(resolve) - TSMB - TS - TS - TSD - TS - TSG - Class 43 [Country end]

TF = Trailer First
TC = Trailer Composite (half 1st Class, half Standard)
TRFB = Trailer Restaurant First Buffet
TSMB = Trailer Standard Micro Buffet
TSD = Trailer Standard Disabled
TS = Trailer Standard
TSG = Trailer Standard Guard

Many times since then the same information was posted here, and the railway press have also given the same information in articles since FGW/DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) first announced the changes to 1st Class provision on the FGW HST fleet. However, nice to know the Customer Panel also now know officially.  

[thetrout]

I've had the layouts confirmed.....

The micro-buffets will have Standard seating either side of it, with the 1st class being the 1.5 coaches nearest the PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) buffers.

On the other sets, the full size buffet coach will be moved to sit second coach from the buffers, oriented that it's 1st class seating buts onto to the coach nearest the buffers with full 1st seating. The coach being converted to Standard then being the third coach from the buffers.

See my previous post #428

That was from an Internal FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Document I was allowed to look at a while back. I have asked for another look at it because I only got a brief look as I needed to catch a train (Which includes one of the Internal Mockup Impressions listing the carriage as Coach A )

My contact has requested a copy for me and I am waiting for it to arrive. But haven't been to that station in a few days. I'll see if he's ready when I pop up next

[ChrisB]

They walked away because they could (their agreed contract with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) allowed a break clause) and avoid a very heavily ^-loaded rear end contract that the DfT issued and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) signed.

Pure and simple. Total DfT f***-up.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Posting here in a personal capacity: I agree with ChrisB in what he says in his post above. 

[Super Guard]

Certainly London bound stoppers in the morning are rammed by Hayes and Harlington.............I suspect the answer will be "Crossrail will sort everything out"  however perhaps something is needed quicker........demand has been rising year on year so no excuses for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) not addressing this.

Addressing it how?

Errrrrrrr.......by planning for and providing extra capacity in order that paying customers can board and travel safely and with at least a modicum of space/comfort? It ain't cheap you know! (I now fully expect to be blown away by "there isn't just stock lying around doing nothing you know" type responses), but surely it is incumbent upon the service provider to provide sufficient capacity? 

So given you know there is a national shortage of rolling stock and you no doubt understand the short-term nature there is with the GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise, if you were in charge of FGW when the new contract came into force last year, what would you have done differently with regards to obtaining extra rolling stock to provide the sufficient level of capacity you mention, given IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) and Crossrail are in the offing and the previously mentioned shortage of stock...?

[SandTEngineer]

.........and after speaking to the conductor he informed me that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) was at the receiving end of a bit of a backlash from regular First Class passengers concerning the First Class changes.

Interesting, but not a massive surprise that FGW are experiencing a backlash. Did the train manager suggest what form this backlash was taking? Complaints to management or more people just voting with their feet?

I think its both.  There was an argument going on between another passenger (sorry customer) and the Train Manager about the quiet coach (or lack of) with the passenger stating that the coach was still labelled thus on the exterior and thus he would take them to court for mis-leading advertising 

[SandTEngineer]

.....and when the Train Manager announced that 'customers' should read the Safety Cards I did my duty and duly read it and this is what I found.....



No sign of coaches K, L or M there then   I will be writing to RSSB^▸ (Rail Safety and Standards Board) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

[ChrisB]

Why? They're not essential/required....

[trainer]

Why? They're not essential/required....

So why are they there?  Better to withdraw them if so as they could confuse the occasional, non-train-savvy punter in an emergency.  Not sure what the H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) risk assessment would be of having inaccurate safety info over none at all.

(I shan't lose any sleep wondering  .)

[thetrout]

No sign of coaches K, L or M there then   I will be writing to RSSB^▸ (Rail Safety and Standards Board) and FGW^▸ (First Great Western).

I've sent the picture to a Safety, Health and Environmental Manager to see what they think of it. It is also worth pointing out on a DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about) side that Train Managers carry these Safety Cards in Braille Format...!

I am merely speculating here. But IF someone read the Braille Safety Leaflet and were sat in Coach M. Then there was, God forbid, a serious incident... Doesn't bear thinking about in my opinion.

So personally I agree with bringing this to the attention of FGW and RSSB. I'll post what my contact thinks on this when I get a response.

Posting here in a personal capacity: I agree with ChrisB in what he says in his post above. 

+1

[TaplowGreen]

Certainly London bound stoppers in the morning are rammed by Hayes and Harlington.............I suspect the answer will be "Crossrail will sort everything out"  however perhaps something is needed quicker........demand has been rising year on year so no excuses for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) not addressing this.

Addressing it how?

Errrrrrrr.......by planning for and providing extra capacity in order that paying customers can board and travel safely and with at least a modicum of space/comfort? It ain't cheap you know! (I now fully expect to be blown away by "there isn't just stock lying around doing nothing you know" type responses), but surely it is incumbent upon the service provider to provide sufficient capacity? 

So given you know there is a national shortage of rolling stock and you no doubt understand the short-term nature there is with the GW^▸ (Great Western) franchise, if you were in charge of FGW when the new contract came into force last year, what would you have done differently with regards to obtaining extra rolling stock to provide the sufficient level of capacity you mention, given IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) and Crossrail are in the offing and the previously mentioned shortage of stock...?

..........you will I hope forgive the perceived heresy against the infallible deity that is FGW in the opinion of some on here, and you will I hope have noted the irony in my original post....however as someone who, along with millions of others has over the years spent a fair chunk of my salary on some of the highest rail fares in the World and in return spent a fair chunk of my time in conditions of overcrowding which if I were a cow or horse would be illegal, I don't think it's unreasonable of me to expect some tangible effort at a meaningful solution from the organisation receiving said monies, without having to devise the solutions myself?

[IndustryInsider]

And hopefully you'll be making those views in your response to the Greater Western franchise consultation that's currently running, as most of the fault in that regard lies with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

[TaplowGreen]

And hopefully you'll be making those views in your response to the Greater Western franchise consultation that's currently running, as most of the fault in that regard lies with the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

Already done - awaiting a constructive response (but not holding breath!)

[IndustryInsider]

Good stuff.  I urge others who have similar concerns/grievances to do the same.