FGW 1st Class - ongoing discussion of the benefits and their apparent reduction

[whole diary]

[ellendune]

But no-one is going to buy a 1st class season ticket from Bristol Parkway to London if they are constantly going to have to stand. No commuter at Westbury will bother to buy a 1st ticket if the packed SW service arrives with no seats left.

That is correct and weekend first was introduced on the basis that these people would not be traveling at the weekend.  If overcrowding in first class is becoming a problem at weekends then the obvious thing is to limit or end weekend first upgrades and rely on first advanced to fill empty seats in a more controlled way.

If first class is already full during the week then taking first class seats out would impact on first class travel.

If First Class is too empty, do what East Coast have done. Lower the fares and offer a decent level of service (inc food and drink). It's not rocket science.

But that does not solve the problem FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are trying to solve. If you take first class seats out and replace them with standard class you get more seats in so more people can sit down.

[grahame]

If First Class is too empty, do what East Coast have done. Lower the fares and offer a decent level of service (inc food and drink). It's not rocket science.

But that does not solve the problem FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are trying to solve. If you take first class seats out and replace them with standard class you get more seats in so more people can sit down.

And you get more space where people will accept (all be it begrudgingly) the need to stand - so a capacity 48 goes up to 80 or even to 112 over the busiest of sections

[Umberleigh]

So we could have disgruntled FC^‡(resolve) commuters, who pay the most to travel. Disgruntled First Advance passengers who will no longer be able to buy a ticket in FC. Also tens of thousands of disgruntled Weekend First users who will no longer be able to upgrade (something they might have done for decades now).

But hey, it'll make some people who can't be bothered to reserve a seat in Standard happy.

[ellendune]

So we could have disgruntled FC^‡(resolve) commuters, who pay the most to travel. Disgruntled First Advance passengers who will no longer be able to buy a ticket in FC. Also tens of thousands of disgruntled Weekend First users who will no longer be able to upgrade (something they might have done for decades now).

But less passengers (first or standard class) who have to stand.

But hey, it'll make some people who can't be bothered to reserve a seat in Standard happy.

We are talking about increasing the total number of seats. Reservation is only a case of ensuring I have a seat.  Surely this board should have some care for all passengers on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) not just the ones who reserved a seat. Or is it just a case of "I'am all right Jack".

Remember also that not everyone is even able to reserve a seat. Most of my business meetings in London are flexible and I do not know when I will return.  I don't reserve a seat as the number of unclaimed reserved seats in the afternoon always annoys me so much and I assume it annoys other also.

[Umberleigh]

Weekend First has been available since the 1980s (to the best of my knowledge). To just withdraw it will hardly be good for customer relations.

First are in the transport business to make money. End of. This proposal will see passengers paying a premium of well over ^200 for a journey standing so passengers paying a third of that amount can sit. How is that good business sense?

[Timmer]

I bet if the ban on civil servants travelling First class was lifted this would not be happening.

[Btline]

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't get any extra revenue from this.
A few 2nd class peak passengers will get to sit down. Ok, a few more people might be able to fit on the trains at Reading.

But I doubt it'll compensate for the huge numbers downgrading their First Class seasons to standard (or switching to the car).
And at off peak times, 1st will still be even emptier with fewer upgrades and advances!

What FGW have got to remember is that they have made their 2nd class carriages claustrophobic and uncomfortable, so many may not switch. They said that the rock hard seats would give and get more comfortable - not true, they are still bum numbing after 45 minutes. And they also claimed that the high seat backs were for Elf and safety - again, not true, proven by the myriad other refurbs of HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) in recent years which mysterially also passed H&S^▸ (Health and Safety). Yes, legroom is decent, I'll admit.

As for diagramming the 2.5 1st carriages on SW services - this WON^▸ (Weekly Operating Notice )'T work. FGW struggle to get enough HSTs out of Old Oak Common (so Worcesters are always Turboed) and it won't be long before the 1803 Pullman is formed by a 1.5 1st class micro buffet, which will leaver commuters .

I haven't seen it anywhere that this is confirmed yet.

[BandHcommuter]

First are in the transport business to make money. End of.

As a company with shareholders this is true, but it's not quite that simple. The way the industry is structured means that private companies are constrained from operating their franchises in a wholly commercial manner. Firstgroup makes money from its rail franchises through a profit margin earned on the delivery of a contracted level of service, which includes the provision of a timetable specification and any other outputs (e.g. peak seating capacity) which are included in the agreement. Some of these outputs are non-commercial, but included in the franchise for a range of social, economic and political reasons. It may be that DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) has made a policy choice that the optimisation of capacity utilisation in the peak (where there is currently a severe and worsening overcrowding problem) is more important than the availability of premium accommodation or even the overall profitability of the service. I would imagine that existing loadings, passenger demand forecasts and future pricing scenarios have been carefully analysed in developing any proposals to rebalance the mix of first class and standard accommodation.

[Super Guard]

Just a thought, given the negative reporting of overcrowding during peaks and "hard pressed commuters", perhaps FGW^▸ (First Great Western) aren't having much say in this at all and the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) are the ones pushing this?  Maybe FGW have to agree to this whether they like it or not as part of the GW^▸ (Great Western) extension...?

[Umberleigh]

But we already know that at peak times, FC^‡(resolve) is full or very nearly so so. So all DafT will achieve is to rob Peter to pay Paul. Can you imagine the announcement on the 18.02 Paddington - Penzance: "First Class passengers without a seat may move down to Standard coaches A to E".

Great service for a ^380 open peak return ticket from Plymouth.

[Btline]

It may be that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) aren't driving it. But as railways don't make a profit, it seems madness to reduce the income of the railway by turning away 1st passengers.

[broadgage]

I bet if the ban on civil servants travelling First class was lifted this would not be happening.

Indeed, and also MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament)

[Umberleigh]

I appreciate DafT are driving this, but it will reflect so badly on FGW^▸ (First Great Western). The vast majority of Standard class passengers will be unaware they have an extra coach, but FC^‡(resolve) passengers will raise merry hell on the train and in the media if they are forced to stand. The media will inevitably focus on the eye-watering peak FC fares, and FGW will once again be the villains.

[John R]

I suggest all those who are concerned write to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (preferably stating how often you use first class). If this isn't a done deal then at least FGW will have some evidence which could be used in discussions with DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

[Timmer]

I suggest all those who are concerned write to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) (preferably stating how often you use first class). If this isn't a done deal then at least FGW will have some evidence which could be used in discussions with DfT^» (Department for Transport - about).

Surely FGW have ticket sales data to show how much First class is used as well as revenue from sales of Weekend First tickets.