Annual timetable changes

[whole diary]

[Timmer]

So the EU^» (European Union - about) interferes in domestic train timetables, does it? I know a way for Alistair Darling to save ^40million per day.....

Get some serious track upgrades for a fraction of that.

You know I was only thinking that this morning but that is taking this way off topic but as you say you would get quite a few new miles of track as well as other things...

[Timmer]

It's a load of crap, basicly the timetable should be like it used to be, summer being late May bank holiday to the end of September and winter the rest of the time as changes to the services are required in most parts of the country to cater for summer flows, if we had a 365 day timetable then there would be loads of dated trains which do actually confuse lots of people!

Here here! The current set up makes the 'summer' timetable very long which means in a number of cases two timetables have to be produced for some routes because of seasonal services.

[RailCornwall]

I'll repeat my comment that there should be NO difference between core 0800 - 1900 services 365 days a year. Occasional additions should be made to accomodate demand only such as the Newquay Summer services. Yes it'd cost but at least we'd have a rail network worthy of the name.

To clarify a 1035 Truro to Penzance service would run at that time every day of the year including weekends and bank holidays.

[TerminalJunkie]

Sorry, TerminalJunkie (and John R, for going off-topic again), but that original wording in the directive was amended - see http://www.unece.org/trans/main/ter/terdocs/l_28920021026en00300030.pdf 

Ahh, thanks!

Whereas:
(1) Annex III to Directive 2001/14/EC establishes the schedule for the process of allocating rail infrastructure capacity and stipulates that changes to the working timetable are to take place each year at midnight on the last Saturday in May.
(2) For reasons of commercial operation,* infrastructure managers and rail companies are proposing that the date for changes to the working timetable be moved to December of each year.
(3) Annex III to Directive 2001/14/EC should therefore be amended accordingly.

* - my emphasis

It appears that they were responding to requests from the Rail Industry...

[willc]

I'll repeat my comment that there should be NO difference between core 0800 - 1900 services 365 days a year. Occasional additions should be made to accomodate demand only such as the Newquay Summer services. Yes it'd cost but at least we'd have a rail network worthy of the name.

To clarify a 1035 Truro to Penzance service would run at that time every day of the year including weekends and bank holidays.

Why? Is there a huge demand for travel from Truro to Penzance at 10.35 on a Sunday morning in January, or indeed most of the year outside the summer? I doubt it. Are you saying we should pay vast amounts in taxes and fares to move empty trains around every Sunday morning?

In my part of the world, there would be no point whatever running something resembling a weekday or Saturday timetable on the Cotswold Line on a Sunday morning, because the numbers travelling are tiny.
After lunchtime they build up, as does the service on offer, reflecting the flow back towards London at the end of the weekend.

The same applies to many other routes and operators, who are responding to what the market wants. When operators talk about a seven-day railway, what they really mean is one that is available to them after about noon on Sunday, to handle the very heavy flow of passengers in the afternoon and evening. And the flow towards London at this time is, of course, the reverse of that which applies at such times from Monday to Friday.

[RailCornwall]

I'm saying that like crampt rolling stock that Britain if it wants to be respectable should offer services of a regular pattern at the same time of the day 365 days a year, if it can be done in other parts of Europe I see no reason why it shouldn't be done here. Indeed it might well start up demand that nobody thought would exist.

[stebbo]

You know I was only thinking that this morning but that is taking this way off topic but as you say you would get quite a few new miles of track as well as other things...

To get back on topic, why can't the EU^» (European Union - about) keep its nose [snout] out of GB^▸ (Great Britain) domestic train timetables? I thought there was something called "subsidiarity"? Another barmy EU Directive goldplated as usual.

[willc]

It's all part of providing a level playing field across Europe for rail operations as part of moves to end the monopolies of state-owned rail operators. All it did was put a fixed date on the change, so everyone knew where they stood and formalised a system that had operated for many years through the UIC anyway - BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) didn't just change train timetables in isolation, they did actually have to make sure that, for example, there would be an SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways) boat train waiting for ferries the other side of the Channel.

And if you really think that somehow, were we to leave the EU^» (European Union - about), that we would be able to go our own way and just carry on trading with EU members as if nothing had happened, I should point out that in order to trade under favourable terms through the European Economic Area Agreement, Norway has to implement EU directives, despite having no say whatever in framing them. But they can probably live with this, because there are only four million of them and they are sitting on far more oil and gas reserves than are left in the British bit of the North Sea - we don't have that luxury.

Oh, and the Treasury would immediately trouser the money, not spend any of it.

[stebbo]

But there aren't any boat trains anymore that I'm aware of

[RailCornwall]

Eurostar?

Thalys and ICE to London 2011, The British Network is part of Europe.

[willc]

Quite - my point was that this has gone on for years, never mind the EU^» (European Union - about). For boat trains read Eurostar, and just the same for Chunnel freight trains, which connect in France, Germany and Italy with services throughout Europe - and maybe with the Germans now owning EWS^▸ (English Welsh & Scottish Railway Ltd, now known as DB Schenker Rail (UK^▸ (United Kingdom))), and Eurotunnel doing a deal with SNCF^▸ (Societe Nationale des Chemins de fer Francais - French National Railways), we will actually start to see the freight volumes grow to the levels predicted when the tunnel was being planned.

[stebbo]

Eurostar is surely the exception for which we don't need to make the vast majority of our timetables conform to Europe; same must go for freight.

[Btline]

The CTRL^▸ (Channel Tunnel Rail Link) is un-connected to the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) network. No need for synced timetables.

[devon_metro]

The CTRL^▸ (Channel Tunnel Rail Link) is un-connected to the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) network. No need for synced timetables.

Are you suggesting that HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) is a closed system?

I think not...

[thetrout]

The CTRL^▸ (Channel Tunnel Rail Link) is un-connected to the BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) network. No need for synced timetables.

Are you suggesting that HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel) is a closed system?

I think not...

If Btline is suggesting this, then I wonder what South Eastern are going to do with all those new Class 395 Units...