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Question: What is your overall opinion of FGW (First Great Western)'s service over the last 10 years?
FGW (First Great Western) really has transformed travel!
There's been a good improvement overall.
There's been a marginal improvement.
Things are much the same.
The service has worsened slightly overall.
The service is noticable worse overall .
FGW (First Great Western) now provide an awful service compared with 1999.

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bemmy
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« Reply #90 on: June 01, 2009, 21:43:37 »

Yeah it was originally an election commitment to provide a half hourly service for three years from April 2007. After they'd actually discussed it with First, it became a forty-minutely service from December 2007, which eventually materialised in May 2008. So as I understand it the funding lasts till the end of March next year. Bristol City Council has had to make spending cuts every year of my adult life, so we can't take a continued subsidy for granted. However I'm hopeful that the political benefits of being seen to be green will motivate whichever party is in power to keep finding the 100k a year, which isn't really a lot of money in the scheme of things.
Unfortunately it's not that low, it's more like ^450,000 per year. We can hope that the more frequent service is included in the Service Level Commitment for the new franchisee.
Sorry don't know why I had 100k in my head. Undecided 450k is a much bigger deal.... I'd be surprised if it got added to the franchise commitment because surely the government aren't going to be in a position to increase the burden on the franchise holders in the current climate.
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« Reply #91 on: June 02, 2009, 09:43:17 »

I've pretty much covered Route 30 in previous posts, so, moving on...

Route 31: Exeter to Plymouth and Torbay

The route between Exeter and Plymouth is operated with a mix of trains. There's a roughly hourly Cross Country service making limited stops at Newton Abbot and Totnes and a FGW (First Great Western) fast service to/from London which make similar stops. In both cases there are occasional extra stops at places like Ivybridge, Teignmouth and Dawlish.

There's also a local stopping service operated by FGW (and even South West Trains occasionally get in on the act) which only run through to Plymouth a few times a day.

At Newton Abbot the branch line to Paignton splits off of the main line and this is served roughly twice an hour with a combination of local services that have usually run from/to Exmouth, and occasional express services operated by FGW (to London) or Cross Country heading up north to either Birmingham or Manchester.

Back in 1999 it was a similar mix of services, but frequencies have changed quite a lot. For example, there was just the one Cross Country operated service running from Paignton back then (as far as Newcastle) whereas there are now four daily services. To give some examples, taking total number of services in one direction on a weekday (not Fridays) now as compared with 10 years ago, you get the following totals (1999 in brackets):

Exeter St. Davids to Plymouth: 36 (39)
Newton Abbot to Exeter St. Davids (some of these are slow trains that get overtaken at Dawlish Warren): 62 (56)
Exeter St. Davids to Torquay: 26 (23)
Paignton to Dawlish Warren: 23 (14)

As you can see, most routes see an increase in the number of trains. Journey times haven't changed much; Plymouth to Exeter in around an hour is the norm, though with more trains stopping at Newton Abbot and Totnes, the average trip now takes a couple of minutes longer. Nothing much could be done to improve on timings without tilting trains or a total rebuild of the route as it twists and turns following the coast for long periods.

Early morning and late evening services were marginally better in all examples that I looked at, though there are still some noticeable gaps in the service. One that really sticks out is from Plymouth to Exeter in the evening, when after the 19:40 has left, there's only one departure (at 21:23) before the sleeper service. That's pretty poor for two big cities like that and by way of comparison from Paignton or Torquay to Exeter at a similar time of evening there's no less that six options available before the end of the days service.
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devon_metro
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« Reply #92 on: June 02, 2009, 11:30:07 »

Any info on London services? Currently there are two and 1 takes just over 4 hours! I distinctly remember there was an off peak morning departure to London in Great Western days!
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« Reply #93 on: June 02, 2009, 23:15:45 »

Any info on London services? Currently there are two and 1 takes just over 4 hours! I distinctly remember there was an off peak morning departure to London in Great Western days!

There was a 10am departure from Paignton which reached Paddington at 13:21 (via Bristol) and a 14:17 which got to Paddington at 17:14 via the B&H (Berks and Hants - railway line from Reading to Taunton via Westbury).

Now it's much earlier at 07:38 from Paignton which goes via Bristol to get to Paddington at 11:40 and then the afternoon fast service is similar at 14:15 arriving at 17:24.

There's also the odd service to Waterloo, but they're very slow!
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« Reply #94 on: June 02, 2009, 23:25:26 »

Why does the afternoon train take 12 minutes longer now? I would expect an additional 4 stops at least. Let me guess - 12 minutes of slack?

Does Torbay need a regular London service (every 2 hours)?
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« Reply #95 on: June 03, 2009, 09:30:30 »

It has the one extra stop at Tiverton Parkway, and is given an extra 5 minutes between Exeter & Taunton including this stop. It's then given an extra 6 minutes on the non-stop stretch from Taunton to Reading. So whether you call it slack or a pathing allowance, it's doing what the majority of long distance services has done in the last 10 years and slowly got slower.
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« Reply #96 on: June 03, 2009, 11:21:26 »

3hr21 is impressive via Bristol & Box!

Btline - no, Torbay doesn't need a regular service. Instead it needs the trains it has to either connect well at Newton Abbot see (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4705.0) or the services it currently has to take a sensible amount of time to reach their destination. The 1415 Paignton - Paddington could have quite a bit of time taken out, however as it overtakes the 15xx Taunton - Paddington at Frome (I think!) then if it ran 5 minutes later it might get held up whilst the train it overtakes make its way to Westbury, and if it simply had the slack cut it is likely to get delayed by a Turbo near Reading or will not get a platform at Reading itself. It is completely possible for all West - Paddington to arrive at Reading at xx48 and depart at xx50, however slack means they don't arrive till xx51!
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« Reply #97 on: June 04, 2009, 11:57:25 »

Routes 32, 34 and 36: The Devon branch lines - Exeter to Barnstaple and Exmouth and Plymouth to Gunnislake

The Exmouth branch:
This is a busy little branch line service the town of Exmouth and some large villages and suburbs of Exeter that lie along the River Exe estuary. It has a basic half-hourly service throughout the day until the mid-evening when it reverts to an hourly service. There are no extra trains during the peak hours, although all trains stop at Lympstone Village (x), Exton (x), Polsoe Bridge and St. James' Park during the peak hours. Outside the peak hours these stations are only served once per hour.

Generally speaking one train per hour continues on to Paignton, and the other (limited stops service) runs through to Barnstaple. There are a total of 32 trains a day in each direction with an overall journey time of around 30 minutes for the 11 mile route length.

Back in 1999 the journey time was a little quicker, as fast as 22 minutes with the same stops. The one change in the calling patterns is that Lympstone Village is now served half-hourly whereas Lympstone Commando station (used exclusively forces personnel) is an hourly request stop. In 1999 this was the other way round. There was a total of 29 trains per day. The extra three trains are comprised of an extra early morning service, an extra mid evening service, and a late train from Exeter at 23:27 returning at 00:01. This late train especially is a real improvement as in 1999 the last train back from Exeter was as early as 22:41 from St. Davids.

At weekends there's usually a train every 30 minutes following a similar pattern to weekdays, and on Sundays it's an hourly service. Ten years ago similar frequencies operated, but services again didn't run as late into the evening, and were also much more erratically timed on Sundays.

The Barnstaple branch:
A roughly hourly service operates throughout the day on the 39 miles from Exeter to Barnstaple. It's a long trip of just over an hour. Interestingly there is only one commuter train of the day from Barnstaple at 07:09 as the next train of the day doesn't get to Exeter until nearly 10am! After that it's hourly until mid-afternoon when a few slightly larger gaps open up until the last train which leaves as early as 21:00 from Exeter and 22:18 from Barnstaple. Virtually all the trains are services through from/to Exmouth. There are a total of 14 trains per weekday in each direction.

In 1999 there were fewer trains operating which gave a frequency of roughly one train every two hours off-peak, increasing slightly in the peak hours. This meant a total of nine trains per day back then and a last train from Exeter that departed as early as 20:21!

At weekends the same sort of service operates on a Saturday as during the week, and again there have been the same increase in trains since 1999. On Sunday there are six trains a day which is one extra than in 1999.

The Gunnislake Branch:
There's a service every two hours on the 45-minute trip from Plymouth to Gunnislake. There are no extra trains in the peak hours, though Keyham, Devonport and Dockyard stations on the suburbs of Plymouth see the occasional extra peak train which run along the main line stopping at St. Beaudeax Ferry Road (literally right next to Victoria Road station on the Gunnislake branch) and then crossing over the Tamar Bridge. These are far from ideally spaced though meaning commuters from Plymouth to Keyham have trains at 17:06, then a gap until 18:17 before the next train running only 6 minutes later at 18:23, then a large gap until the last train of the day at 21:30. Similar inconsistencies existed ten years ago! Not surprisingly these stations have very low usage figures, with most commuters from West Plymouth using the bus.

Total number of services between Plymouth and Gunnislake are 9 per day in each direction. Back in 1999 this was only 7, but there was one early morning train that ran to/from Calstock which is the station nearest to Gunnislake. The other extra train plugs gaps of nearly three hours in the service of ten years ago.

At weekends, there's one extra train a day on Saturdays giving a total service of 8 trains a day. The Sunday service has decreased since 1999 with only 5 trains a day which is one less than ten years ago.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2009, 12:02:40 by IndustryInsider » Logged

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« Reply #98 on: June 04, 2009, 14:54:22 »

Routes 25, 26, 27 and 28: Cardiff Central, Bristol and Swindon to Southampton, Portsmouth and Weymouth (incl. Melksham!)

Again, these routes can be split up into different core routes.

1) The premier route is the busy service between Cardiff and Portsmouth which runs via some busy towns and cities including Bristol, Bath, Salisbury and Southampton. There's a basic hourly service throughout the day, which doesn't increase in frequency for the peak hours, but certain other services running on sections of the route do provide for extra capacity (details below). Back in 1999, the same core service operated by Wales & West - the only change being that services now stop at Bradford-On-Avon, but journey times have slipped slightly in the last 10 years with the through trip now taking 3h 24m which is 7 minutes slower than most services in 1999.


II as a matter of curiosity have there been changes in the timings on the peak Portsmouth to Cardiff diagrammes between now and then. In particular from the Wiltshire towns to BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) (and Filton)

I am curious as I started commuting around 2001 and I don^t remember there being much difference in journey times between the outward journey and return. I haven^t kept timetables from that time so I^m at a loss trying to compare.

Filton ^ Trowbridge times are quick outer surburban runs on the way home, approx 40-45 mins, even peak evening, whereas peak travel to work is approx 1hr.

Also catching the 0800/0900 Trowbridge allows plenty of time at Bristol to change trains to get to Filton as both have long layovers, in fact the 0900 allows sufficient time to catch the previous 0851.

Also IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) there may have been a later Portsmouth Bristol train, and I now have 6 timetables covering my journey to work instead of 1, I wonder what new passengers are going to think of that.  Roll Eyes
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #99 on: June 05, 2009, 11:23:45 »

II as a matter of curiosity have there been changes in the timings on the peak Portsmouth to Cardiff diagrammes between now and then. In particular from the Wiltshire towns to BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) (and Filton)

Well, now the overall journey time from Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff is typically 3h 23m, which doesn't really vary in the peak hours, but does in the mid to late evening. In 1999 they overall journey time was 3h 11m. There seems to be the odd minute added here and there throughout the route, but in particular between Warminster and Bath Spa where 5 or more minutes are typically added to the journey. This is largely due to all trains now calling at Bradford-On-Avon, and also some trains back in 1999 missed out stops at either Westbury or Trowbridge.

Additional calls here and there mean many more direct trains from somewhere like Trowbridge to Filton AW, although they generally take a minute or two more. If you'd like me to compare any specific train(s) with what was available in 1999, then just post the details and I'll see what I can do.
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« Reply #100 on: June 05, 2009, 12:16:56 »

II, actually the question relates to my comments in the ^Wanted^ thread re comparative out and return journey times from West Wilts to the greater Bristol area.

IIRC (if I recall/remember/read correctly) it was around 2001 that Wales and West split and Wessex formed, with I assume running pretty much the WW timetable, and it was at that time that the Filton specials first ran via rhubarb curve avoiding BTM (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) in support of the large numbers of MoD staff suddenly uprooted from Bath to Filton, many of whom lived in the West Wilts area.

The old WW service from Trowbridge was rather limited and as you point out there were trains that ran straight through a very crowded platform. Wessex did a very good job of improvements of stopping all Cardiff^s at Trowbridge and with the help of WCC (Wiltshire County Council (Until March 2009)) added the specials. It was still at that time that the Waterloo service started in deepest South Wales and there was a return service to Manchester.!!!!

Even then there were services that didn^t stop at BoA» (Bradford-on-Avon - next trains), my interest is were the journey times to BTM (Filton) of the 40-45 min region? Although again I think many of the Cardiff^s initially didn^t stop at Filton, there were certainly some of the peak Portsmouth^s didn^t as you had to catch the slightly earlier service and change at BTM if you wanted the quick run back to Trowbridge.

PAX always adapt to whichever TT is put in front of them, another example was the early days of the SWT (South West Trains) Waterloo service which initial ran ECS (Empty Coaching Stock) from Salisbury, again going past platforms full of passengers on the way. This quickly changed and became a very good outer surbaban sprint to BTM which PAX quickly caught onto and is now a full 3 car service into Bristol from Salisbury.

A bit long winded so now the specifics, Currently the first fast service begins with the first clock face time from Portsmouth the 0822, through Trowbridge at 10.14, Filton at 11.01.

Prior to that all services take approx 1 hr, a really annoying 15 min difference, all peak return journeys take 40-45 min. Was that the case in 1999?
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« Reply #101 on: June 05, 2009, 23:22:56 »

A bit long winded so now the specifics, Currently the first fast service begins with the first clock face time from Portsmouth the 0822, through Trowbridge at 10.14, Filton at 11.01.

Prior to that all services take approx 1 hr, a really annoying 15 min difference, all peak return journeys take 40-45 min. Was that the case in 1999?

I see what you mean, tramway - sorry, my route knowledge of the area is a little lacking! Here's a breakdown of the journey times from Trowbridge to Filton from 1999:

06:21 - 53 mins
07:01 - 50 mins
07:34 - 48 mins
08:02 - 55 mins
09:04 - 52 mins
10:11 - 45 mins

So, for a 9-5 job in Filton the 07:34 would have meant an extra 10 minutes in bed, compared with the equivalent 07:24 you'd have to catch now. As an interesting aside there were no more direct trains after the 10:11 until the 17:41 - now there's usually two every hour!

Coming back from Filton the times were:

16:59 - 44 mins
17:37 - 51 mins
18:08 - 42 mins
19:08 - 44 mins
« Last Edit: June 05, 2009, 23:28:53 by IndustryInsider » Logged

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« Reply #102 on: June 07, 2009, 11:26:35 »

Route 35: Plymouth to Penzance - The Cornish Main Line

This route has to compromise between providing local services for the many tourists that visit Cornwall, with services those travelling towards London on business. I'll deal with the branch lines and connections in my next post, but taking the route from Plymouth to Penzance as a whole, there's roughly an hourly service throughout the day, with extra services in the peak hours. Several of these are through trains to/from London, and when they don't run the gaps are filled by local services, and four services each way operated by Cross Country, biased heavily towards eastbounds in the morning and westbound in the evening. The nature of this mix of trains means the service is far from clockface.

All trains stop at Redruth, Truro, St. Austell, Bodmin Parkway and Liskeard. Most trains stop at St. Erth, Camborne and Par. Stations at Hayle, Lostwithiel, and the local stops between Liskeard and Plymouth see some trains stopping, with calling patterns swapped around to make sure that no train stops everywhere.

The Plymouth to Liskeard commuter market is catered for by a couple of extra trains in the evening peak, though towards Plymouth in the morning these are all services that have started from Penzance.

1999 saw a similar pattern of services operating, with the local services being provided by Wales & West. Here's a comparison of the numbers of trains operating between selected stations on the route. The 1999 figure as usual is in brackets:

Penzance to Plymouth: 22 (20)
Hayle to St. Austell: 12 (9)
Bodmin Parkway to Plymouth: 22 (24)
Plymouth to Redruth: 22 (22)
Liskeard to Truro: 22 (23)
Lostwithiel to Penzance: 13 (10)

So, that's a marginal increase on most routes.

In terms of journey times, it varies between services, but most trains take in the order of 2hrs between Plymouth and Penzance which is just under 80 miles long, some trains with less stops actually take longer due to the signalling headways that exist on certain sections of the route. However, as with other routes the average journey time has increased slightly over the years. You can still do the trip in as little as 1h44m, which is actually quicker than back in 1999, however the number of trains making the trip in less that two hours has increased slightly.

Early morning and late evening services are better than they were in 1999, especially eastbound where the first train out of Penzance is at 05:05, when this used to be much later at 06:35 and gives an early arrival in Paddington at 10:02 which is almost two hours earlier than it was.
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« Reply #103 on: June 07, 2009, 21:27:28 »

I'm pretty sure the up "hind" the 05xx ran in 1999? arriving into Pad a little before 1000, also, there is one service that doesn't call at Redruth, the 0521 Penzance to Truro which has an odd stopping pattern of Pnz-Hyl-Cbn-Tru in order to get out of the section as not to delay the 0541 Pnz-Pad.

One thing not picked up on is the extra London services to/from paddington now.
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« Reply #104 on: June 08, 2009, 12:23:40 »

I'm pretty sure the up "hind" the 05xx ran in 1999? arriving into Pad a little before 1000, also, there is one service that doesn't call at Redruth, the 0521 Penzance to Truro which has an odd stopping pattern of Pnz-Hyl-Cbn-Tru in order to get out of the section as not to delay the 0541 Pnz-Pad.

One thing not picked up on is the extra London services to/from paddington now.

Yes, my mistake, the 'Hind' did run at 05:15 from Penzance arriving 09:59. Thirteen minutes quicker than it is now! I covered the general London-Cornwall services back in Route 4. Thanks for that and the Redruth correction though 'vacman'.
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