Trains without retention tanks spray human effluent over railway trackside workers

[whole diary]

[didcotdean]

The toilet paper piles on the tracks at Didcot used to be the only guide as to where to stand to be close to the doors - not needed now since signs are now doing the job

[ChrisB]

I think it's a shocking indictment that Bob Crow has been silent on this issue until he jumped on this bandwagon....

[Network SouthEast]

This has been a long standing issue for the RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) as long as I can remember. Say what you want about Bob Crow, but I'm afraid on this occasion this is a subject he has been campaigning about for many years.

[thetrout]

I have mixed views on all this...

Having trains with retention tanks to hold the toilet waste is one thing... But making sure the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) empties them is quite another.

I believe that Class 357 (c2c) and Class 377 (Southern/FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect)/Southeastern) units close the toilets once the tank reaches 75% Capacity... Which is considerably less than ideal if one had a full bladder and would like to add to that remaining 25% space...

I believe Voyagers do something similar. It is not unusual to board an XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Service at Bristol Temple Meads and find at least one toilet out of service...

[eightf48544]

Agree retention tanks on short trains with few toilets on long journies are a problem particularly with DaFTs^» (Department for Transport - critical sounding abbreviation I discourage - about) obssession with cramming as many seats in each carriage as possible. How many loos doies an IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) have for 600+? Maybe the answer is  more carriages per train with more toilets.

Or if we are going to have short trains with few toilets on long journies maybe emptying facilities on route at say Birmingham, Bristol Cardiff Manchester Preston/ Carlise Newcastle Edingburgh. After all they used to water trains at such places. Be done in 5 minutes station stop.

It's quite a clean operation provided the hose is securly coupled just like pumping out a narrow boat's tank.

[IndustryInsider]

How many loos doies an IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project. This will offer more capacity on routes, save money, give a consistent and safe service and meet customer requirements. Intended to replace HSTs.) have for 600+?

According to the latest draft specification I've seen, there's 5 toilets on a 5-Car Bi-Mode and 11 on a 9-Car Electric.  Sounds about right to me.

[Network SouthEast]

I have mixed views on all this...

Having trains with retention tanks to hold the toilet waste is one thing... But making sure the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) empties them is quite another.

I believe that Class 357 (c2c) and Class 377 (Southern/FCC^▸ (First Capital Connect)/Southeastern) units close the toilets once the tank reaches 75% Capacity... Which is considerably less than ideal if one had a full bladder and would like to add to that remaining 25% space...

Not far off, it's actually 80% full. The clue is that outside of the toilet, the WC^▸ (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) light starts flashing. 357 units only have one toilet, but on 375 and 377 units there are two toilets, and the small toilet (i.e. not the universal one) does not lock itself - that remains open, although of course a member of staff could lock it shut if it started overflowing!

As for the universal toilet, it is possible for a member of staff to open it up for further use when full, although it locks again after each further use, so only really best for situations of urgent need.

Turbos actually have a gauge fitted below the toilet on the outside of the carriage to indicate how full the toilet waste tank is. One light means 50% full, two lights mean 80% full. Although it is so low down and covered in dust/dirt seeing it in practice is difficult! With the fitment of a universal toilet as part of the Turbo refurbishment, I expect we'll see a similar feature introduced where the door locks itself.

[IndustryInsider]

Turbos actually have a gauge fitted below the toilet on the outside of the carriage to indicate how full the toilet waste tank is. One light means 50% full, two lights mean 80% full. Although it is so low down and covered in dust/dirt seeing it in practice is difficult! With the fitment of a universal toilet as part of the Turbo refurbishment, I expect we'll see a similar feature introduced where the door locks itself.

Blue lights if anyone does want to try and spot one of them lit beneath the grime!  Personally I can't wait for the new toilets to be fitted as the current ones fitted during the refresh continue to not be fit for purpose - running out of water or blocking far to quickly and easily.

[Southern Stag]

The taps and the hand-dryers in them just seem to be generally quite poor too. The tap is only ever giving out a light spray of water at best and the hand-dryers are very feeble, it would take you an age to actually dry your hands using them. Could do with the hand-towels fitted to most of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) fleet.

[Surrey 455]

The taps and the hand-dryers in them just seem to be generally quite poor too. The tap is only ever giving out a light spray of water at best and the hand-dryers are very feeble, it would take you an age to actually dry your hands using them. Could do with the hand-towels fitted to most of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) fleet.

The sinks are badly designed.  As soon as you put your hands under the tap, the water bounces off to anywhere except the sink.

That's why there's often a wet floor in a Turbo toilet.

[bobm]

In a strange way, that is reassuring. 

[Lee]

The notion of a Turbo Toilet brings to mind visions of "My name is Barry Scott...."

...Bang, and the dirt is gone 

[trainer]

This subject is revived today by the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) news site.

Cambridge rail worker's health fears over excrement spray

Rail workers are being sprayed by human urine and faeces from passing trains, putting their health at risk.

A Network Rail worker said staff were "genuinely concerned" about excrement, urine and sanitary towels on the tracks.

Network Rail accepted that train toilets which emptied on the track were "outdated and unpleasant" for track workers.

Greater Anglia said it was hoping to phase out toilets which dump waste.

The man who works across the East Anglia region said: "A train would be coming and we'd stand back the recommended distance.

"It's not unusual to feel a spray, a kind of mist in the air. That's bad enough, but then you walk back to where you've been working on the tracks there's [faeces] everywhere."

'Effort needed'

Passenger waste is discharged from trains not fitted with retention tanks.

The majority of trains running through Cambridge station are operated by Greater Anglia, First Capital Connect and CrossCountry.

More than half of Greater Anglia's trains in the Cambridge area do not have retention tanks. The other two operators' trains do not discharge on to the track.

"We'd like to see them replaced or modified, but this requires effort from across the industry and funding," said a Network Rail spokesman.

The Department for Transport said the government recognised "this is a very unpleasant experience for railway workers and the public" and was "working closely" with Greater Anglia on a fleet upgrade.

What's interesting is that I've read in Today's Railways UK^▸ (United Kingdom) (Jan 2014 issue) that the Greater Anglia Class 321s currently being refurbished at the behest of the Eversholt leasing company keep one of their non-retention toilets, while the new universal access toilet has a retention tank. The purpose of the refurbishment is to keep the units running for a further 15 years.  This seems to be a long phase out.


Moderator note: Edited to quote full news item and add link. bignosemac.

[paul7575]

What's interesting is that I've read in Today's Railways UK^▸ (United Kingdom) (Jan 2014 issue) that the Greater Anglia Class 321s currently being refurbished at the behest of the Eversholt leasing company keep one of their non-retention toilets, while the new universal access toilet has a retention tank. The purpose of the refurbishment is to keep the units running for a further 15 years.  This seems to be a long phase out.

I don't think the GA^▸ (Greater Anglia) 321 fleet in general are being refurbished yet.  As I understand the current situation, a single demonstrator has been produced by the ROSCO^» (Rolling Stock Owning Company - about), but a decision on production has not yet been made - that's why the demonstrator has two different interiors, metro at one end and suburban at the other.   I wonder if it's because fitting a retention tank on the existing does not really need to be 'demonstrated', but it is known it could be fitted if a decision was made.  Also, if they are refitted to 'metro' standards, they may remove the toilets completely anyway...

Paul

[trainer]

Thanks, Paul. A useful clarification for me.