Ticket Machines - machines missing or broken, and penalty fare implications (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[super tm]

I've had similar problem with the London Midland machine at Worcester Foregate Street.

A Saver Return to Preston isn't valid before 09:00.

But, they are valid when combined with a Railcard.

But the ticket machine still won't sell you one.

Missed my train (and my connection to Preston) on account of this last week.

I think they are only validbefore 0900 if you are travelling on virgin trains.  i dont know if it would be valid from wos to birmingham on a london midland train.

[Worcester_Passenger]

I was under the impression that the 'Peak' exemption for Railcard holders on Virgin priced journeys only applies to travel on Virgin services, not connecting services as well. Thats what the restriction code information appears to say.
    
2) Holders of 16-25, Senior,  Disabled Persons, HM Forces  and Family & Friends Railcards, New Deal Photocards and  Inter-Rail (Code 70) Cards  travelling with Off-Peak  tickets may use ANY Virgin    train service, as long as the journey being made is priced  by Virgin Trains.

So from Worcester, you'd need to split at Brum to travel 'Peak' with Virgin.

Take your point - but I've done the journey using the one through ticket and not had it challenged.

[ChrisB]

sounds as though ytou shouldn't have.....

[Ollie]

As per ChrisB just because you have done it before unchallenged, doesn't make it right.

[IndustryInsider]

Is there an obvious reason why the relaxation to the restriction (as quoted by 'bignosemac' above) is in place in the first place?  Seems a strange, and probably baffling to the average passenger, relaxation to me! 

No surprise that 'Worcester_Passenger' wasn't challenged as I bet you could count on one hand the number of non-Virgin ticket checkers that know about it, and all the other quirks of the system!

[inspector_blakey]

For some reason Virgin have always been nice to railcard holders, allowing off-peak tickets with railcard discounts to be available without restriction on their services for journeys that they price. Also applied to CrossCountry back in the days when it was operated by Virgin, although perhaps predictably Arriva scrapped the concession with indecent haste once they took over.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Is there an obvious reason why the relaxation to the restriction (as quoted by 'bignosemac' above) is in place in the first place?  Seems a strange, and probably baffling to the average passenger, relaxation to me! 

No surprise that 'Worcester_Passenger' wasn't challenged as I bet you could count on one hand the number of non-Virgin ticket checkers that know about it, and all the other quirks of the system!

Have to say that I agree!

For some reason Virgin have always been nice to railcard holders, allowing off-peak tickets with railcard discounts to be available without restriction on their services for journeys that they price. Also applied to CrossCountry back in the days when it was operated by Virgin, although perhaps predictably Arriva scrapped the concession with indecent haste once they took over.

Arriva did indeed scrap the concession. Not sure when. Makes travelling to the North East from here a lot more expensive than travelling to the North West.

But why Virgin are so nice to railcard holders is a mystery, given the aggressiveness of the peak-hour pricing.

[eightf48544]

Virgin may be nice to railcard holders because they realise that the extra revenue they may raise by imposing restrictions isn't worth the adverse publicity they would get from the Daily Mail when the TM^‡(resolve) surcharges the mythical little old lady for travelling with an off peak  ticket on a peak train.

[Worcester_Passenger]

Virgin may be nice to railcard holders because they realise that the extra revenue they may raise by imposing restrictions isn't worth the adverse publicity they would get from the Daily Mail when the TM^‡(resolve) surcharges the mythical little old lady for travelling with an off peak  ticket on a peak train.

I can see the logic of that - but why is it that it's only Virgin who make this offer? Surely same comment applies to the other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)?

[Mookiemoo]

Virgin may be nice to railcard holders because they realise that the extra revenue they may raise by imposing restrictions isn't worth the adverse publicity they would get from the Daily Mail when the TM^‡(resolve) surcharges the mythical little old lady for travelling with an off peak  ticket on a peak train.

I can see the logic of that - but why is it that it's only Virgin who make this offer? Surely same comment applies to the other TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company)?

Virgin are so much more famous for good customer service - its the whole virgin brand.......

Last year when I was in ireland, I had a ticket from liverpool to belfast.   Was when the wires at bletchley didnt want to stay up.  I had a ticket for an intercity to liverpool.  It was delayed so I got a virgin vomiter to holyhead - change at crewe.

That was so delayed I ended up spending the night at my moms and rebooking - I emailed virgin - used the good old richard.branson@virgin.com (I doubt he saw it but one of his lackeys did) and I got the price of my flight in virgin vouchers

Doubt first would do that

There is a reason I go virgin to the states exclusively even if it involves more complicated connections.

They arent perfect but they are a hell of a lot better than most

[Tim]

Perhaps Virgin are generous to Rail Card (RC) holders cos they are a "youth" brand and want to keep popular with the students?

Edit: VickiS - Clarifying Acronyms

[JayMac]

Virgin may be nice to railcard holders because they realise that the extra revenue they may raise by imposing restrictions isn't worth the adverse publicity they would get from the Daily Mail when the TM^‡(resolve) surcharges the mythical little old lady for travelling with an off peak  ticket on a peak train.

Not quite the 'off peak ticket on a peak train' but Virgin do have form with the 'mythical old lady' which shows that their customer service isn't always sweetness and light. After all 49% of that customer service is actually 'provided' by Stagecoach.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/edinburgh_and_east/8223262.stm

and in the spirit of impartiality here's the story as covered by the Daily Mail:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1076183/Good-Samaritan-threatened-arrest-organising-whip-round-pensioners-115-penalty-fare.html

[inspector_blakey]

I may be cold and heartless but I really don't have that much sympathy in situations as covered by the Daily Hate article. Bottom line: the time of the train you have booked is printed clearly on your ticket or accompanying reservation coupon. Said ticket also has "booked train only" printed on it. If only people could be bothered to read what they have in their hand they might just be able to work it out. I've lost count of the number of times I've seen people travelling on advance tickets hand a fistful of wrong coupons to the guard because they're too idle to pick out the right one. How difficult is it for people to read these things? Answer: not very, but huge numbers of people simply won't even try to read them because apparently it's too difficult. Although of course I don't know what happened in this case, it strikes me as very unlikely that station staff would have checked the ticket and told her to catch the wrong train as claimed.

That said, there do seem to be some rail staff who are their own worst enemy in situations like this which have the potential to generate enormous adverse publicity when the little old lady involved goes running to the Mail!

[JayMac]

If only people could be bothered to read what they have in their hand......

May I suggest reading the stories then blakey? Both mention the fact that the little old lady had a printed itinerary that showed details of an earlier train, which differed from her booked tickets. She enquired about the error and was advised to travel as per the itinerary.

Various articles refer to this itinerary as 'provided by station staff', 'provided by Virgin Trains', 'provided with her tickets'. It appears she double-checked with staff at Manchester Piccadilly and was advised to take the earlier train. Under bye-laws that constitutes 'permission from an authorised person to travel without a valid ticket'.

[inspector_blakey]

I think it all depends on the context - that's why I added a disclaimer that we can't know exactly what happened in the situation. I remain extremely dubious that if the woman in question had shown rail staff her actual booked advance ticket they'd have told her to take the earlier train. Who knows under what circumstance the "itinerary" (probably just a print out from RJIS?) was produced? If she walked up to the ticket window and asked for a print out of the next train to Euston then that's what she'd have received.

What is absolutely certain is that she would have had a ticket in her hand with her journey details printed on it, and therefore if she'd actually read that all the info she needed was there.