Ticket Machines - machines missing or broken, and penalty fare implications (merged topics)

[whole diary]

[Btline]

And what happens if you can't operate machines? e.g. if it is cold, the touch screen won't work; or if you are elderly/technophobic, and rely on buying a ticket from staff

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for raising this, CEO2 - and may I extend a hopefully warm and dry welcome to the Coffee Shop forum! 

Two ticket machines were installed recently at Nailsea & Backwell (see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1732.msg34133#msg34133).

As of this morning, they were both out of use with smashed screens (and had been for the past week) - but this evening, they were both working again, with nice shiny new screens.

What is missing here at Nailsea in the mornings, though, rather too often, is our local chap with an Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) machine. 

[thetrout]

And what happens if you can't operate machines? e.g. if it is cold, the touch screen won't work; or if you are elderly/technophobic, and rely on buying a ticket from staff

I agree 100%

In all honesty some people just can't be bothered to use a ticket machine because they are a technophobe (or too impatient), or are to scared that their card will get stuck in the machine (has been known to happen...!)

I think saying to passengers, buy your ticket from a ticket machine or get a penalty fare is unfair. because no matter how simple you make it, some people will not have a clue how to use a ticket machine. Also if your disabled you might not be able to access the ticket machine, or could put yourself in danger by doing so (e.g. Deaf/Blind Person).

I Think the rule should be if you want to travel, you should be allowed to board the train, but on the condition that you make yourself known to the TM^‡(resolve)/RPO as soon as is physically possible.

Generally if I board a train without a ticket I will tap on the Guards door and ask to buy a ticket, which nearly all the time are more than happy to issue me a ticket. Some may say get one at Bristol or Bath on the way out (Which I do) as it makes their job easier.

Also some of the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine)'s don't even work properly. Or get vandalised before onboard staff are aware.

[Btline]

The purpose of ticket machines is to reduce queues for the ticket office, by allowing people to pick up pre-paid tickets and by selling standard tickets.

[vacman]

The purpose of ticket machines is to reduce queues for the ticket office, by allowing people to pick up pre-paid tickets and by selling standard tickets.

what crap, they're there to issue tickets to whoever wants to use them! some people like to go to the ticket office, fair doo's, some people would rather use the machine as they may not like interaction with people.

[inspector_blakey]

TVMs^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) are fine for regular travellers who know exactly what they want. The problem comes with working out which ticket to buy (and even with fares simplification you're still frequently offered about 10 different possibilities for a given journey, e.g. Oxford to Bristol do you want "not Reading" or "not London", SOR, SDR, SVR, CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')), SOS, SDS, CDS^▸ (Off Peak Day Single [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day')), SVS etc. etc.) There's a big yellow notice on the wall threatening penalty fares, prosecution, fire and brimstone for boarding a train without a ticket. Unfortunately our unfamiliar passenger doesn't have a clue what s/he wants and ends up staring blankly at the screen like a rabbit caught in the headlights with the queue building up behind them, before they panic and end up buying something that may be far too expensive.

Another big problem is that the machines cannot advise about the times restrictions for using tickets: taking the Oxford - Bristol example again, the morning peak restrictions for the two possible routes are different and although I've made that journey several times a month for the last 8 years I wouldn't be able to tell from a TVM which the appropriate ticket was if I wanted to travel back at a different time from usual. I'm not quite sure how this is permitted, since I would have thought a customer is entitled to know at the point of sale exactly what the ticket they are buying entitles them to!


Another problem comes when 80-year-old Aunty Mavis who hasn't yet figured out how to work the video recorder pitches up at an unstaffed station equipped with a TVM. She can't handle the technology, and even then has no idea what ticket she should buy, and ends up with a penalty fare.

Note to mods - worth shifting this thread to Fare's Fair?

[Btline]

The purpose of ticket machines is to reduce queues for the ticket office, by allowing people to pick up pre-paid tickets and by selling standard tickets.

what crap, they're there to issue tickets to whoever wants to use them! some people like to go to the ticket office, fair doo's, some people would rather use the machine as they may not like interaction with people.

That's what I am saying. Sorry that my post so unclear it was cr*p.

They augment and supplement ticket offices. They are no use in some circumstances, such as planning longer journeys (where split tickets and train times are needed to get the best offers - i.e. the NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast) website).

They are very useful for short, common journeys.

[Sprog]

I was reliably informed today by the missus that the Missing machine at Yate Plat 2 has now been re-installed & is working.

Re. People getting cards 'stuck' in the Machine, it is a Chip & Pink keypad & Card slot, so i cannot see how that is physically possible unelss you are very slow (Thats a large proportion of punters then  !?) or insert it into the 'Notes' recepticle!! (also a retarded thing to do!)

[thetrout]

Re. People getting cards 'stuck' in the Machine, it is a Chip & Pink keypad & Card slot, so i cannot see how that is physically possible unelss you are very slow (Thats a large proportion of punters then  !?) or insert it into the 'Notes' recepticle!! (also a retarded thing to do!)

Correct, But some ticket machines it's an Insert Card Here... similar to your standard High Street ATM^‡(resolve). I'm pretty sure thats what they have at Westbury, which when first introduced cause no end of bother...

In all honesty though I have never seen anyone awarded with a penalty fare for local/medium distance travel e.g. Trowbridge - Bath Spa or Warminster to Salisbury without a ticket. A mere frown and don't do it again response is normally used...

[RailCornwall]

Does anyone know if there's a next generation in the build that would replicate say the NEEC Website so you could buy on the spot tickets from Anywhere to Anywhere on any date?

It surely shouldn't be too difficult to schieve.

Absolutely love the SBB CFF FFS^▸ (for goodness' sake (a more polite definition)) machines in Switzerland which are a breeze to use

[Zoe]

Does anyone know if there's a next generation in the build that would replicate say the NEEC Website so you could buy on the spot tickets from Anywhere to Anywhere on any date?

As I said in another post, I can't see any TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) allowing this as they would lose revenue through people buying combinations of tickets.

[G.Uard]

The purpose of ticket machines is to reduce queues for the ticket office, by allowing people to pick up pre-paid tickets and by selling standard tickets.

what crap, they're there to issue tickets to whoever wants to use them! some people like to go to the ticket office, fair doo's, some people would rather use the machine as they may not like interaction with people.

And...quite a few of our 'customers' do dislike interaction with people...especially conductors.  Machines do also offer the 'proof of payment' option, which will be useful if ever the penalty fare licence appears.

[CE02]

Thanks for all of your information pleased to hear the Nailsea machines are back in action

[thetrout]

And...quite a few of our 'customers' do dislike interaction with people...especially conductors.  Machines do also offer the 'proof of payment' option, which will be useful if ever the penalty fare licence appears.

Are you refering to fare dodgers by any chance G.Uard ...?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for all of your information pleased to hear the Nailsea machines are back in action

Hmm ... I may have posted a bit too soon, there, CE02! 

This morning, both machines were cheerfully accepting cash payments for tickets - but I noticed that some miscreant seems to have applied either solvents or some heat source to the buttons on the keypads, reducing them to a molten plastic splodge.  I've no idea whether those buttons still work - but I'll try to find out, tomorrow morning!