Germany - rail services, ticketing and incidents (merged posts)

[whole diary]

[infoman]

Not sure if any of the fans could have used the tram 107 that is a bit slower and a different route but could have got some of them to Essen.

[grahame]

Not sure if any of the fans could have used the tram 107 that is a bit slower and a different route but could have got some of them to Essen.

They could - sorta-did

On Sunday night, and then into Monday morning, England fans found that out for themselves as the transport system around the Veltins Arena collapsed and left supporters facing more than two-hour queues for the tram away from the stadium. Several supporters reported crushes to The Independent, as a capacity crowd of over 50,000 left at once and found the stadium was only serviced by a two-carriage tram that ran every 15 minutes. Fans were left waiting without information or guidance.

But is this worse that the British system which is simply to close a public transport facility if they fear it would overcrowd?  Latest example (I think) I saw of that was Falmouth Town closed over the weekend, closed because of the Sea Shanty festival. Across the world, it seems, railways have slimmed down their fleets so they cannot easily cope with special events; time was that there were trains kept in the sidings for a round trip or two on Friday or Saturday that could also be used for event specials.  To be fair to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway), decisions to close are also lack of line capacity - GWR *do* run Glastonbury and Gold Cup extras, though they sacrifice some services that run on "normal" days to have the trains to do it. 

[TaplowGreen]

I remember the days when people looked up and used the German rail network as an example of how things should be done….. in fact, many still do!  Oh dear.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/euro-2024-trains-germany-england-fans-gelsenkirchen-b2563683.html

Ironically the fans experience would have been pretty similar had they stayed at home and attempted to travel by rail on Sunday across wide areas of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)!

[ChrisB]

You couldn't make it up though....

Services on that tram 107 ground to a halt before the game because.....

The fan park that England fans had been encouraged to gather in pre-match was organised such that coaches galore would be laid on to the ground from an adjacent space to the fan park.....BUT to get there, all those fans had to....cross the tram tracks to reach the buses......

Cue hundreds of drunken fans wandering on & across said tram tracks meaning that the trams came to a halt for safety's sake.....

[infoman]

As some one who was actually there on the afternoon/evening of the game,these are my comments.

The fans park had more divots that I have ever seen at a public venue.

Regarding getting the fans away from Gelsenkirchen to Essen after the England game,

I think advice to travel on the 107 tram to Essen would have helped.

[Clan Line]

But is this worse that the British system which is simply to close a public transport facility if they fear it would overcrowd? 

From the Arsenal FC^▸ (First Class, or Fat Controller, or Football Club, depending on context) website:

"Please note: Holloway Road station will be exit-only before matches and closed for up to 2 hours after the match. Pre-match eastbound trains non-stopping. Drayton Park is also closed on match days. "

Obviously far too convenient unsafe for the travelling public to have them available for use !

[infoman]

The German railway system leaves a lot to be desired,no ticket gates/barriers from Augsberg to Essen via Munich/Dusseldorf and Dortmund.

Plenty of DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) staff walking about in groups of fours not sure what they are there for

"Security staff" walking around pairs

and the police also walking around in groups of fours and fives

All local trains seems to be driver only,and very few ticket checks carried out on the trams and trains.

[grahame]

The German railway system leaves a lot to be desired, no ticket gates/barriers from Augsberg to Essen via Munich/Dusseldorf and Dortmund

I agree that German stations are open.   I strongly disagree that this is a bad thing.

In the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), we choose to check tickets at major stations ... and just look at how many extra staff have been added at places like Chippenham, Bath Spa and Bristol Temple Meads to man the barriers, and at all the extra equipment needed as well, in many cases being awkwardly engineered in to the old buildings and at busy times not having the capacity to cope with surges without people having to queue to get through on arrival at their destination.

In Germany, they choose to spend their money / deploy staff to check that the public are following the rules in a different way.  They have ticket checks on (some) trains, and staff who - sadly and as with RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector, or Retail Price Index, depending on context) teams in the UK - rarely work alone. Their enforcement / fines are not something I have personal experience of, except from very occasionally seeing a team "having a chat" with a member of the public.

Different systems.   Why, and what is the common objective of the system?   The common objective is to ensure that people, for the most part, pay for the journey they make.  Whether that's done by occasional checks with strong sanctions if you are found to be knowingly in breach of the rules, or by checking absolutely everyone on every journey, is something of a political decision. 

I suspect, Infoman, that you are or have been in Germany recently and at first the lack of ticket checks feels disconcerting.   Actually, I love it once used to it.  It's wonderful, if ticketed, to be able to walk up to or from your train without a feeling that you are being processed and checked to see if you are a criminal every time (especially if the barrier refuse your valid ticket 'cos the system is too complex!) and it's really helpful having staff "hanging around in groups" who can answer questions and provide customer care.  Contrast that with barrier staff who, especially after a train has just arrived, are so busy processing the queue throughs their bottleneck that they don' have the resource to answer queries.

Across Europe, you'll find that some countries (France, Spain) are barriered at major stations, but that most countries are not.   The objective of ticket checking has to be to ensure fare collection and there are different ways. The chosen / best method depends on the size of the flows, the time between stations and journey metrics for checking between stations, the strength of the penalties, national psyche, the ease of purchasing tickets and the complexity of the fare system, and also the proportion of unticketed travel the operator is prepare to accept.

There is nothing much to be gained from checking law abiding travellers in and out.  Actually much more effective to have stiff enforcement on those you are certain are knowingly repeatedly offending - and (yes) staff get to know who they are, and the experienced ones [staff] can actually target their checking.   But, sure, it can disappoint to have gone to a lot of trouble to get the right ticket only to not even have it looked at.

Edit - to correct typos

[johnneyw]

......and very few ticket checks carried out on the trams and trains.

I can only speak for the Hamburg U/S Bahn system which I know quite well but on all my visits there the "on train" revenue protection teams were organised and not infrequent...on that evidence alone I wouldn't have risked travelling without a ticket had I been so minded.
That said, I was never there during a major international sporting event with the associated extra demands on the transport system.

[didcotdean]

Having only stations barriered and largely abandoning onboard checking drives behaviour of some to simply buy the cheapest tickets available to operate the barriers on their journey (or evade them in other ways).

The estimated fare evasion rate in Berlin is 3.3% and in London 3.9%, across all modes.

[Surrey 455]

From Euronews

The country's two largest cities will have their route temporarily closed next year for repairs.

Germany’s rail carrier Deutsche Ban is undertaking a country-wide effort to improve the railway system with the busy Frankfurt to Mannheim route closed for repairs until December.

Deutsche Bahn says that the focus will be on heavily used routes.

The route between Hamburg and Berlin, the two largest cities in the country, will be closed next year due to repairs.

Also covered here : Rail Target

[ChrisB]

From the Independent, via MSN

The cost of a popular ticket introduced last year that allows people to use all local and regional trains, buses and subway systems across Germany is set to increase by about 18% next year, a senior official said Monday.

Transport ministers from Germany's 16 states agreed that the price of the Germany Ticket, which has cost 49 euros ($54.70) per month since it became available in May 2023, should rise to 58 euros at the beginning of 2025.

....cont....

[Noggin]

Ah, that's a shame but not unexpected.

The ticket is great value for anyone who's planning to use local transport reasonably frequently on a trip to Germany - I seem to recall that the Berlin day travelcard was about €15, so you can fairly easily make your money back if you're in Germany for a week, with the added advantage that you basically just walk onto any service that takes your fancy.

There's quite a lot written online, the main things are that you have to buy it for a minimum of one calendar month and pay attention to when you need to cancel (some providers say you need to cancel by the 10th of the month). We found an online service that let us buy online with a credit card and got a barcode that we could pop in our Apple wallets, but to be honest, we hardly ever had our tickets checked and there are minimal, if any barriers on German public transport.   

 

[johnneyw]

Even with the increase in cost, it strikes me a pretty good value still.

[ChrisB]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

A station platform has been cordoned off at Hamburg central station in northern Germany amid fears that a train passenger may have arrived carrying a dangerous virus.

A fire department spokesman told the Bild tabloid that the man and his girlfriend had developed flu-like symptoms on a high-speed train from Frankfurt.

The spokesman said they had come from abroad where they had been treating a man who went on to develop an infectious disease, without giving details of the illness.

It was unclear what was wrong with them but the man, who was reported to be a medical student, did not have a fever.

Hamburg's Morgenpost website said they had arrived in Frankfurt from Rwanda on Wednesday morning.

A team of police and firefighters went to the station and the man and his girlfriend were then taken to a specialist clinic. Platform four was closed for a period before it was allowed to reopen.

The East African country is currently battling an outbreak of the Marburg virus, Eight people are known to have been died so far in the outbreak.

d between people via body fluids through unprotected sex and broken skin.

The virus produces fever, headaches, vomiting and diarrhoea.

According to the World Health Organization (WHO), on average, the Marburg virus kills half of the people it infects.

It was first identified in 1967, when lab workers were infected with a previously unknown infectious agent first in Marburg and Frankfurt in Germany, and then in Serbia.