More Steam Please

[whole diary]

[Ford Xing]

I know FGW^▸ (First Great Western) aren't responsible for the steam tours but can we have more on the line. These are taken between Chilworth & Gomshall

[Chris from Nailsea]

Wow!! 

Thank you for some brilliant pictures, Ford Xing - and a very warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum! 

[Btline]

When steam operates on NR^» (Network Rail - home page), what do the trains to about signalling? Do they install the AWS^▸ (Automatic Warning System) onto the steam locos - or do they trust the drivers to drive!?

Good pics btw!

[gaf71]

When steam operates on NR^» (Network Rail - home page), what do the trains to about signalling? Do they install the AWS^▸ (Automatic Warning System) onto the steam locos - or do they trust the drivers to drive!?

Good pics btw!

They must have all relevant safety systems.

[eightf48544]

To add to gaf71 comments, they have to fitted with both AWS^▸ (Automatic Warning System) (which maybe original BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) if not removed on preservation) and TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System). The problem with these systems is that they require batteries which have to be recharged externally as most locos don't have dynamos. Flat batteries can fail a loco. Locos used on the Mallaig line also have to have RETB^▸ (Radio Electronic Token Block) fitted.

Another problem with number of potential locos available  for mainline running is that most steam locos are still fitted with vacuum brakes and with the lack of suitable stock they either have to be fitted with an air pump or you couple a diesel on the back to provide the air. NR^» (Network Rail - home page) also likes a diesel on the back to push the loco if it runs short of steam or otherwise fails on route.

But the biggest obstacle to running steam over a reasonble distance is water. There are no more water troughs or water cranes at the end of every platform which were designed to provide several 1000 gallons in the shortest time possible. A 4" hose takes a long time to deliver a couple of 1000 gallons. As there are few places where you can recess a train for 30 plus minutes needed to refill the tender, it makes the routes on which they can run very limited.

I see the photos are of Clan Line which actually has both a dynamo (one of Bullied's many innovations) and an airpump. In the last photo you can just see a whisp of steam from the airpump at the back of the tender. In regular service on the Waterloo -  Bournemouths the Merchants always took water at Southampton Central in both directions.

[Ford Xing]

Thanks for the welcome. I used to use the North Downs line regularly between '73 & 77 when I had to get from Guildford to Gatwick. They were lovely trips on a 'Tadpole'. You were shaken but not stirred.

The run Clan Line does is from Victoria - Guildford - water stop at Shalford (for about 10-15 mins) - Redhill - Victoria. Shalford being the only stop. Tickets a mere ^295 each.

For info there is another trip this Friday. Departs Shalford at approx 14:30

Here is where the air pump is located



For more info - http://www.clan-line.org.uk/index.htm

I am in no way connected with the organisation.

[Btline]

Are there any plans to electrify the rest of the North Downs line?

[devon_metro]

Nice shots, however, it looks to me like there is a person trespassing in the first photo (in the yellow?)

[eightf48544]

Are there any plans to electrify the rest of the North Downs line?

Unfortunately not that I've heard. It would make sense so long as  Ash to Wokingham is done at the same time. This would allow an electric Reading - Gatwick service.

This infill together with Ashford - Ore and Oxted - Uckfield would be some of the last third rail electrification to fill the remaing gaps South of the Thames.

Southampton/Eastleigh/Basingstoke to Salisbury would probably be third rail to limit third rail 25Kv interfaces. Reading - Basingstoke could be either but would probaly better as 25kv to avoid  having third rail through the station or avoid changeovers either end of the station. This would enable  electric services from the Southern to Basingstoke

[Btline]

It's so annoying the gov are against electrification.

The GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) could really do with it; but now they've ordered lots of multi million pound diesel trains, their intentions are clear.

[Ford Xing]

Another problem with number of potential locos available  for mainline running is that most steam locos are still fitted with vacuum brakes and with the lack of suitable stock they either have to be fitted with an air pump or you couple a diesel on the back to provide the air. NR^» (Network Rail - home page) also likes a diesel on the back to push the loco if it runs short of steam or otherwise fails on route.

[Electric train]

Are there any plans to electrify the rest of the North Downs line?

Unfortunately not that I've heard. It would make sense so long as  Ash to Wokingham is done at the same time. This would allow an electric Reading - Gatwick service.

This infill together with Ashford - Ore and Oxted - Uckfield would be some of the last third rail electrification to fill the remaing gaps South of the Thames.

Southampton/Eastleigh/Basingstoke to Salisbury would probably be third rail to limit third rail 25Kv interfaces. Reading - Basingstoke could be either but would probaly better as 25kv to avoid  having third rail through the station or avoid changeovers either end of the station. This would enable  electric services from the Southern to Basingstoke

The use of 25kv OHLE equipment but energised at 1500v dc has been looked at.  This is not as daft as it sounds, new dc switchgear currently being installed is manufactured for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) at 750v dc but could be rated at 1500v with simple modification, it would avoid the dangers of conductor rails at ground level, allow faster trains (there is a limit of about 100 mph for a 3rd rail 750v system), would allow for future conversion and does not require as many sub stations

[Ollie]

Nice shots, however, it looks to me like there is a person trespassing in the first photo (in the yellow?)

Just what I was about to mention.

Nice photos though

[eightf48544]

The use of 25kv OHLE equipment but energised at 1500v dc has been looked at.  This is not as daft as it sounds, new dc switchgear currently being installed is manufactured for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) at 750v dc but could be rated at 1500v with simple modification, it would avoid the dangers of conductor rails at ground level, allow faster trains (there is a limit of about 100 mph for a 3rd rail 750v system), would allow for future conversion and does not require as many sub stations

Thanks for that info. A very interesting idea and using proven technology. Both the Glossop and Liverpool Street lines to Shenfield were elctrified at 1500 DC^▸ (Direct Current) and later converted to 25Kv.

It's good to hear that old ideas are being studied rather than the usual "Not invented here" syndrome that greets anyone suggesting something that's been done successfully before.

Now what about coaches and locos for the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)?

[Tim]

The use of 25kv OHLE equipment but energised at 1500v dc has been looked at.  This is not as daft as it sounds, new dc switchgear currently being installed is manufactured for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) at 750v dc but could be rated at 1500v with simple modification, it would avoid the dangers of conductor rails at ground level, allow faster trains (there is a limit of about 100 mph for a 3rd rail 750v system), would allow for future conversion and does not require as many sub stations

Thanks for that info. A very interesting idea and using proven technology. Both the Glossop and Liverpool Street lines to Shenfield were elctrified at 1500 DC^▸ (Direct Current) and later converted to 25Kv.

It's good to hear that old ideas are being studied rather than the usual "Not invented here" syndrome that greets anyone suggesting something that's been done successfully before.

Now what about coaches and locos for the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.)?

I was living in Glossop at the time and vaguely remember the switchover.  IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), DC was switched off one evening and  a day or two later Ac was switched on with very little fuss.  I don't know who was responsible for teh original electrification of that route but they appear to have mde it completely bomb proof.  Very solid gantries etc.  Some might call it over-engineered, but I do not recall a single instance of OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") failure whatever the weather.