Trains leaving early

[whole diary]

[John R]

LIVE ARRIVALS:
20:55 WESTON-SUPER-MARE FROM LONDON PADDINGTON
First Great Western
As of: Wednesday 25 March 2009 20:36:44
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This train is expected to arrive on platform 1.
Expected to arrive Weston-super-Mare on time.


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Weston-super-Mare Station Information
Service Bulletins affecting Weston-super-Mare

STATION TIMETABLE EXPECTED ACTUAL
London Paddington Dep18:30 _ On time
Reading Dep18:57 _ On time
Didcot Parkway Dep19:12 _ On time
Swindon Dep19:31 _ On time
Chippenham Dep19:45 _ On time
Bath Spa Dep20:00 _ On time
Bristol Temple Meads Dep20:15 _ On time
Nailsea & Backwell Dep20:29 _ 20:25
Yatton Dep20:36 On time _
Worle Dep20:44 On time _
Weston Milton Dep20:49 On time _
Weston-super-Mare (Your station) Arr20:55 On time _


Not the first time this has happened on this service at Nailsea.

[devon_metro]

It frequently happens.

Quite obviously it has ridiculous amounts of slack.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Bristol Temple Meads   Dep 20:15 _ On time
Nailsea & Backwell       Dep 20:29 _ 20:25

Yes, I've often observed that TMs^‡(resolve) announce that an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) just leaving Bristol Temple Meads 'will be stopping at Nailsea & Backwell in approximately eight minutes time - so make sure you're in one of the front four carriages, blah, blah'.

And sure enough, it does take rather less than ten minutes for an HST to travel between BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) and NLS, so even allowing for a couple of minutes dwell time for cycles to be retrieved from the power car, it can still leave easily five minutes 'early' from NLS.

As devon_metro says, a ridiculous amount of slack - 50%! 

[Ollie]

Don't think the issue referring to is slack, according to figures it left Nailsea 4 early.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Sorry, Ollie, but I disagree: on the timetable, it is shown that the departure time from NLS is 20:29.  If I were intending to catch that train from NLS to Weston, I'd have been pretty tee'd off to find that I'd arrived on platform 1 at NLS at 20:26, only to see the tail lights of that HST^▸ (High Speed Train) already disappearing rapidly westwards. 

The alternative, of course, would have been for the train to hang about at NLS until 20:29 before departing 'on time': would the TM^‡(resolve) then have had the nerve to announce that everyone already aboard was being held up because of the slack on the timetabled departure time? 

[devon_metro]

Quite frankly, it doesn't take 14 minutes to do Bristol to Nailsea on a 100mph section of track. Often the public timetable deviates from the WTT^▸ (Working Time-Table) (working tt) however unlikely by 4 minutes. The said HST^▸ (High Speed Train) then sat down at Yatton awaiting departure time and subsequently left Worle early. Cut the slack and it could easily be 10 minutes faster without jepardising performance on an average day.

[John R]

Previously it's run early all the way to Weston. I suspect the fact that I told the TM^‡(resolve) as it was pulling out that she had left 4 minutes early made her check her watch at Yatton.

Next time I'm on the service I'll remind the TM that they need to wait, but surely it should be their job to check that they don't leave early. And why does it have 4 minutes slack there anyway? Most HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s don't, as the slack is built into the Bath to Bristol stretch.

[inspector_blakey]

Early departures from stations are sloppy working that should never happen, end of story. Train crew have responsibility for timekeeping and it is up to them to "wait time". Despatching a train early because they have got bored is inexcusable (this once happened to me at Keynsham in the days of Wessex Trains, although how that service managed to arrive there five minutes early on a six-minute running time from Temple Meads without breaking the sound barrier escapes me).

DOO^▸ (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) trains from Didcot depart up to 3 minutes early surprisingly frequently. I have also seen the xx37 stopping service from OXF^» (Oxford - next trains) to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) despatched early when things had got out of sequence and it was in front of the advertised xx31 fast service.

Every time this has happened I have complained to customer relations, but get a standard response giving the implication that the complaint has not been taken seriously (to their credit, when I complained to Wessex the person dealing with the complaint actually checked out the train running logs, confirmed what I had told them and gave a fulsome apology).

I would be annoyed enough to find that my train had departed early if travelling with a flexible ticket. Pax using Advance tickets could get royally screwed over however - I can just see the staff laughing at you further down the line when you explain that you missed your booked train because it departed early!

[Chris from Nailsea]

I would be annoyed enough to find that my train had departed early if travelling with a flexible ticket. Pax using Advance tickets could get royally screwed over however - I can just see the staff laughing at you further down the line when you explain that you missed your booked train because it departed early!

Surely, though, you'd be able to complain - and obtain compensation - subsequently, as the system will have recorded the 'early departure' of the particular booked train for which your ticket was valid?

[Ollie]

Sorry, Ollie, but I disagree: on the timetable, it is shown that the departure time from NLS is 20:29.  If I were intending to catch that train from NLS to Weston, I'd have been pretty tee'd off to find that I'd arrived on platform 1 at NLS at 20:26, only to see the tail lights of that HST^▸ (High Speed Train) already disappearing rapidly westwards. 

Not sure what there is to disagree with, the main issue isn't slack, I was simply stating the system does indeed show departure of 4 minutes early, which I believe is the main issue.

[HSTHopper]

I recently bought one of those Casio radio-synchronized watches, and I'm quite surprised at the number of trains that do depart early. It's not unusual for the 0644 from Nailsea to Bristol TempleMeads to lock its doors and start to move while its still 0642.

[super tm]

Next time you see the guard see if you can look at their watch.  Standard issue analogue with hands.  Accurate to a couple of minutes or so

[bemmy]

A couple of years ago the stoppers from Weston to Temple Meads were all timetabled to call at Parson St 10 minutes after Nailsea. When running on time they invariably left Parson St 2 minutes early until the timetable was restored to the correct 8 minutes. After a couple of close shaves I got used to allowing for it. It seemed a crazy place to have slack, because you could delay a late running Voyager by an extra couple of minutes, where as once you reach Bedminster you can be out of the way on the relief line. Now the slack is between Bedminster to Temple Meads which makes a lot more sense.

[IndustryInsider]

I recently bought one of those Casio radio-synchronized watches, and I'm quite surprised at the number of trains that do depart early. It's not unusual for the 0644 from Nailsea to Bristol TempleMeads to lock its doors and start to move while its still 0642.

Next time you see the guard see if you can look at their watch.  Standard issue analogue with hands.  Accurate to a couple of minutes or so

It surprises me that radio-sync watches (which hardly cost the earth these days - ^15 each if bought in bulk?) are not issued routinely to TM^‡(resolve)'s and Drivers. All the fuss made about whistles blowing and doors locked 40-seconds from departure at staffed stations is so often ruined by a cheap Timex that is reading two minutes late strapped to the TM's wrist at the first unstaffed station stop. It can also work the other way of course with trains departing early - which is probably worse!

[eightf48544]

One of the great innovations Chris Green brought in when he was  head of NSE^▸ (Network South East) was every platform fitted with a synchornised digital flap clock. Solely to aid timekeeping and prevent arguments. Travelling around the old NSE I see some TOCS have removed these valuable aids to timekeeping.

By these clocks some trains from Taplow are moving up to 30 secs early. Booked running time Maidenhead Taplow 4 minutes, easily done in 2.5.

Just a query are the early departures  at Nailsea booked to pick up? If they are then early departure are as Inspector Blakey posted "sloppy working".