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Author Topic: High Speed hub at Old Oak Common?  (Read 8093 times)
eightf48544
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« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2009, 23:31:13 »

What about implementing passing loops on Main Lines so High Speed Services can overtake Slow Services.

Would be handy for Bristol > W-S-M > Taunton as an example. If the XC (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) Fast service is running slightly late, Sometimes the signaller will allow the FGW (First Great Western) Slow service to leave first, which is fair enough because nobody wants 2 late trains. However the consquences of the decision made by the signaller are that you get stuck behind it with the stop start motion right the way through to Yatton or W-S-M!

Having passing loops would prevent this. However I doubt very much that it would be practical or cost effective. Also there is the planning permission and existing infrastructure to content with. The costs of reconfiguring the signalling system AFAIK ('as far as I know') would be huge!

I've answered my own question there really...! Wink

I was going to post something similar re loops. It's not a new idea the last main line (no not the GC» (Great Central Railway - link to heritage line)) but the GWR (Great Western Railway) and GWR and GC joint line from Old Oak to Anyho had 11 passing places where there were loops mostly at staions although quite a long stretch of 4 track from South Ruislip (where the GC joined via a burrowing junction) past West Ruslip.

Not sure OOC (Old Oak Common (depot)) is good place for a hub it's out in wilds for London passengers, it might make an interchange station, but then that defeats the objective of having  a  high speed line to London. Any HS (High Speed (short for HSS (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) line will have to use one of the exisitng London terminii. Even the French use Lyon, Nord and EST and the conventional lines for the last few clicks from the end of the LGV (Large Goods Vehicle in the UK (United Kingdom), or Lignes à Grande Vitesse (high speed rail lines) in France, depending on context) lines into Paris.

I was looking at a road atlas with a table of distances between major towns. it's amazing how close some are to each other. Basically if you say have staions every hundred miles then you only have three staions between London and Glasgow namely  Birmingham Manchester and Carlisle. Or London Edinburgh, Birmingham/Leicester Leeds Newcastle.

Every 50 miles and you might serve Milton Keynes/Bedford  Stafford/Nottingham or Sheffield but not both,  Preston or Lancaster/York. But no station in Scotland.

As others have said we are really too small with too many towns too close together to justify a dedicated HS passenger line.

I would suggest three ways od meeting demand for rail travel. Tram trains serving on street in towns and sharing lines out to the edge of town. Bristol is ideal, Portishead to Severn Beach Filton and Yate with one loop through Temple meads the other through the docks and town centre joining line North of Temple meads. This could apply to many provincial towns.

As for the mainlines, increased line speeds and provision for overtaking both freight and stoppers.  Thus you could run a stopper from Penzance overtaken by a fast at Plymouth, the stopper continues to Newton Abbot where it is overtaken by an  Up Torquay fast and connects with a down Torquay. it then proceeds all staions to Exeter where it's overtaken by the next Up fast from Penzance/Plymouth so on up the line.

Passengers from iall stations  get a through train to their nearest big town where they can change for fast to Birmingham ot London. Big towns get a regular limited stop service to London and any one wanting to go from Liskguard to Totnes will have a through train admittedly with short await at Plymouth. If the changes were cross paltform then so much the better.

But as the trout says boiling frogs would probably make this solution far too expensive that it could be cheaper to build a dedicated  HS line from scratch.
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Btline
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« Reply #16 on: March 26, 2009, 18:16:36 »

We are not the right sort of country for HS (High Speed (short for HSS (High Speed Services) High Speed Services)) lines. And building HS lines WOULD cause disruption.

Ok - if we built London - Glasgow, with stops every 100 miles at Bham, Manchester, Carlisle and Glasgow, what would happen to the VT (Virgin Trains - former franchise (or, possibly, in a France context, Versement Transport - a payroll tax on employers to fund local transport) ) service?
 
There would not be enough pax to justify the current timetable. So extra stops would be introduced; so regular travellers from places like Lancaster, Preston, Wigan, Warrington......would all have extra stops and a slower service.

The country's demographics have changed - people live in these cities because of the fast rail links. Even more will be moving to places like Warrington due to the VHF timetable. We can't just throw all that away.

The solution for the Glaswegians is to make more modest journey times reductions (which make the times bearable, and still v competitive with air) by 155 mph-ing the tracks south of Crewe. For Edinburgh & Aberdeen - ditto plus tiling beyond the border. For the West, electrification and tilting beyond Bristol/Exeter.
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« Reply #17 on: March 26, 2009, 20:15:57 »

Well, as D_M suggests I was thinking of North Pole.

But I'm intrigued to know where you were going with the Flax Bourton thing (especially as I lived just down the road from there for 15 years!)

In all truth I misread your post and hence, misunderstood it Shocked

However there is a rather large siding at Flax Bourton, However I believe it has been disconnected from the Up Main. Stancombe Quarry were planning to use it as an intermodal site to transport stone to places throughout the UK (United Kingdom) using a conveyer belt from the quarry down to the sidings. However this was highly opposed by local residents and the plans were shelved. Shame really because it would have taken an awful lot of lorries off the roads. However that is a different kettle of fish and I do not want to start a huge debate regarding the shelved plans.

As it stands though the siding is there and could be used to stable/maintain some stock. You can clearly see it on Google Maps if you look around station road Wink
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Chris from Nailsea
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2009, 00:05:50 »

That's a very topical comment - and there are some very interesting developments proposed for that particular site: see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4470.0
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William Huskisson MP (Member of Parliament, or Mile Post - a method of measuring the railway in miles and chains from a starting point - usually London, depending on context) was the first person to be killed by a train while crossing the tracks, in 1830.  Many more have died in the same way since then.  Don't take a chance: Stop, Look, Listen.

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