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Author Topic: Wrexham & Shropshire - their rise and fall (merged topic)  (Read 39792 times)
Mookiemoo
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« Reply #45 on: September 24, 2009, 21:53:28 »

Bye bye to the one thing that made the W&S (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) worthwhile - the MK3 sets and on train service

Much quicker from Shrewsbury to get a fast to birmingham and change to Virgin.........

But nowhere near as nice a journey. For an extra 30-40 minutes on train it's worth avoiding a change at New Street/Wolverhampton or Wolverhampton and Stafford. Also the fares are cheaper and the catering in 1st class is superior (OK no free G+T on WSMR (Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway)!). And a first class fare from Shrewsbury to Euston has no first class accomodation on the first leg of the journey.

Oh, and Marylebone is a much more civilised destination than the airport terminal at Euston!

I hope that the service continues with the existing rolling stock. According to the Modern Railways article there are  enough carriages available to Chiltern/WSMR to make up five rakes of MKIIIs, so Chiltern should have access to enough stock for their own loco-hauled designs.

totally agree - so long as the existing stock stay on the route.

However I get the impression chiltern are intending to snaffle the Mk3 stock and replace it with the DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s they run at the moment - and if its the choice of a 158 to brum then a pendo or several hours on a clubman (at best) I know which I would do - and I dont much like changing if I dont have to

Also - I wonder whether the quality at seat dining service in first will stay - that made the journey worth while!
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« Reply #46 on: September 24, 2009, 22:14:03 »

NB: We won't know the full detail of stock for a while!

BUT it seems sensible for the empty contra-peak trains to be run as 168s. It's why Chiltern run 165s on the off peak Stratford trains.

And to be fair, while mark 3s are excellent and unbeatable, I think that Turbostars are actually very good trains - smooth, quiet and comfortable, with large windows and good seat alignment.
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JayMac
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« Reply #47 on: September 24, 2009, 22:33:26 »


And to be fair, while mark 3s are excellent and unbeatable, I think that Turbostars are actually very good trains - smooth, quiet and comfortable, with large windows and good seat alignment.

Not as smooth, quiet and comfortable as a properly maintained original configuration MkIII, no underfloor engines and window aligned seating. 1/3-2/3 door alignment and the interior being designed for commuter use is not really conducive to long distance travel.

I suspect that your comment about windows/seats was a veiled dig at the 390s!

Also, where's the buffet/kitchen on a 168/17x?  Wink
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« Reply #48 on: September 25, 2009, 02:17:32 »


And to be fair, while mark 3s are excellent and unbeatable, I think that Turbostars are actually very good trains - smooth, quiet and comfortable, with large windows and good seat alignment.

Not as smooth, quiet and comfortable as a properly maintained original configuration MkIII, no underfloor engines and window aligned seating. 1/3-2/3 door alignment and the interior being designed for commuter use is not really conducive to long distance travel.

There's a horrible vibration on 168's around the 40-60mph region as well. Overall a good train (for the market it serves) though.
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« Reply #49 on: September 25, 2009, 17:28:41 »

Ok, no catering. But the underfloor engine is really not a nuisance. Scotrail run them on long distance services, and they're fine. At least everyone can see out the window, unlike Pendolinos, and

Of course, nothing can beat the Mark 3 or 4 idea. Shame that the HST2/IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) project isn't just to have a Mark 5, with (a) 155 mph capable locomotive(s), which could be diesel or electric, and could be swapped between, as more lines were electrified.
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« Reply #50 on: September 26, 2009, 14:01:39 »

Quote
As I expected

That was a quick rewrite of history. What you actually wrote was the following:

Quote
Apparently W&S (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) will cease to trade from December. I have read various rumours which I will summarise henceforth:

Basically W&S are not making a profit, and DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) are not happy. Most passengers are travelling to London in the morning and back in the afternoon/evening. Therefore the morning peak W&S service will be run by the loco hauled set. During the off peak time it will run Snow Hill trains, before returning to Wrexham in the evening. The other Wrexham trains (which may be axed) will be operated by 168s, enabling journey time reductions (better acceleration and because higher speed limits apply to 168s). The other rumour is that ALL Wrexham trains will be 168s and the loco hauled sets will be put on Snow Hill trains all day. ALL trains will be branded and operated by Chiltern Railways.

Whereas what's actually happening, and only if officially approved, is the W&S company will continue to trade - it has to, because Chiltern has no powers to run into Shropshire and Wales, as they are outside its franchise area. W&S is open access, so different rules apply, which means Chiltern can't get a subsidy, open access means the operator bears the financial risk. And there would be a hell of a protest from franchised operators if there was even a hint of an open access firm getting an operating subsidy.

W&S will remain in the same three-way ownership by DB Regio, Renaisssance and Laing, but they want to transfer day-to-day operations to Chiltern to save some money. It will continue to operate from Wrexham - just as well given the grant they got for their depot from the Welsh Assembly Government, which might have wanted its money back.

W&S-branded trains will continue to run - and no wonder, given that in a little over a year they have established the brand, with a customer satisfaction rating off the scale - even by comparison with Chiltern's high rating among franchised operators.

In terms of rolling stock, all that is known is that they have asked for the ORR» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about)'s consent to use 168s, nothing more, nothing less. Whether or when they will actually be used remains an unknown - and it could be pretty confusing for passengers if Chiltern trains appear in Shropshire while W&S sets turn up at Snow Hill. Never mind that Chiltern ditched first class and has minimal trolley catering. And why would they use an expensive loco and coaches to cover for a 168 when the cuts to Chiltern's Stratford trains from December will free up a nice cheap 165 or two instead?

While they have consulted in advance and no doubt had some preliminary discussions with the ORR, it can still refuse some or all of what they want to do. And it may be the case with the prospect of more open access operations on the horizon, in the shape of Grand Central's Yorkshire trains, some of the franchised operators may want to challenge the removal of the restrictions on Banbury stops, as this could set a precedent they might not like.

And by way of a footnote, having just looked up their track access contract on the ORR website, Chiltern does not have rights to use Class 67s and coaches on its services (schedule 5, page 35 should you care to check) and even if it would be a formality, has not applied to do so so yet. This is in contrast to FGW (First Great Western), which has got the powers to run 67s and Mk2 (Mark 2 coach) or Mk3 coaches pretty much anywhere on its network, including places such a formation has never been seen, like the Cotswold Line.

« Last Edit: September 27, 2009, 10:05:16 by willc » Logged
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« Reply #51 on: September 30, 2009, 00:30:52 »

The first refurbished W&S (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) train is going into passenger service this morning, with three more sets to follow. Also, there will be free WiFi provision on all W&S trains as of tomorrow (Thursday), whether operated with the overhauled stock or the hired-in Cargo-D Mk3s.
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« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2010, 18:02:32 »

Today's 15:25 ex Wrexham left 15 minutes late and was back on time by Leamington Spa.  If there's at least 15 minutes of padding at the northern end of the route and a similar amount could be trimmed off of the southern section as a result of Evergreen 3 perhaps we'll get to see some really good timings - 3h 15 mins Wrexham to Marylebone and 2h 40m from Shrewsbury and 2h 20m from Telford would really compete with the road and Virgin Trains (especially Shrewsbury and Telford)!
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« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2010, 19:41:07 »

Today's 15:25 ex Wrexham left 15 minutes late and was back on time by Leamington Spa.  If there's at least 15 minutes of padding at the northern end of the route and a similar amount could be trimmed off of the southern section as a result of Evergreen 3 perhaps we'll get to see some really good timings - 3h 15 mins Wrexham to Marylebone and 2h 40m from Shrewsbury and 2h 20m from Telford would really compete with the road and Virgin Trains (especially Shrewsbury and Telford)!

My last journey with them had a good 2 hours to get from Wolverhampton to LEamington - there haas to be a whole load more than 15 minutes in that!
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« Reply #54 on: January 22, 2010, 00:27:46 »

But I'm afraid that until something is done about capacity through Birmingham they never will get sparkling timings.

They have to have a fair amount of slack in hand due to the multifarious routes they use in the  West Midlands - and the signalling between Wrexham and Shrewsbury. It might be double track but has precious few signal sections.

Worst of all is probably Gobowen to Croes Newydd - the box you can see just south of Wrexham General station. That's a lot of miles without a signal to be seen. Last time I went that way, we sat at Gobowen for nearly 10 minutes waiting for a preceding train to reach Wrexham and were still on time there ourselves.

This weekend and next, due to closure of Banbury-Leamington, W&S (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) are running on the WCML (West Coast Main Line), with a bit of a magical mystery tour round north London to get to and from Marylebone. The time allowed between Tame Bridge and Marylebone is anything between 1hr 52min to, er, 2hr 38min.
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« Reply #55 on: January 25, 2010, 21:49:41 »

Despite the magical mystery tours, the passengers are turning up in increasing numbers, up a mere 88.8 per cent in the last six weeks of last year compared with the same period in 2008 and the trains now seem to be running with four passenger coaches, three standards plus the buffet-firsts.

http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/news-item.php?id=93

There are some pictures of the weekend diversions here http://geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/c900316.html including a couple taken on the Greenford line.
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« Reply #56 on: January 25, 2010, 22:19:50 »

Great news. May it continue to thrive.

P.S. Am I the only one to imagine the MD as a rather shortish gentleman with a beard, a cutting edge of humour, and speaking like the Devil in Old Harry's Game?
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« Reply #57 on: January 25, 2010, 22:22:17 »

Despite the magical mystery tours, the passengers are turning up in increasing numbers, up a mere 88.8 per cent in the last six weeks of last year compared with the same period in 2008 and the trains now seem to be running with four passenger coaches, three standards plus the buffet-firsts.

http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/news-item.php?id=93

There are some pictures of the weekend diversions here http://geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/c900316.html including a couple taken on the Greenford line.

Don't get me wrong - if I lived in Shrewsbury - they would be my mode of choice if I worked in London.

Sadly there is not train from Ludlow to connect to the first W&S (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) from shrewsbury - if you were in north london would almost be qucker (and certainly cheaper) to go Ludlow-shrews-MYB (London (Marylebone)) than via newport!

I do use them on the rare occasions I go to London at weekends
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« Reply #58 on: January 25, 2010, 23:05:40 »

Great news. May it continue to thrive.

P.S. Am I the only one to imagine the MD as a rather shortish gentleman with a beard, a cutting edge of humour, and speaking like the Devil in Old Harry's Game?

The reality is rather less exotic... http://www.railnews.co.uk/opinions/interviews/2008/12/02-andy-hamilton.html
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« Reply #59 on: January 26, 2010, 01:06:40 »

There are some pictures of the weekend diversions here http://geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/c900316.html including a couple taken on the Greenford line.

Goodness knows what the usual gangs of degenerates that hang around Drayton Green and Castle Bar Park thought of those! Far more challenging to surf than the grab rails on the back of a Turbo cab!
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