Fare evasion [original topic]

[whole diary]

[vacman]

Avantix^▸ (Ticket Issuing System used on board trains) machines can issue CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))'s in the morning peak, doesn't make you a jobsworth for not issuing one just because it's in the machine, i'll bring up the points made and make sure that the Y-P discount is removed from First class fares in avantix, thanks for bringing it up!

[Tickets Please]

What's the issue here? And why do I not like the way this thread (and the other one) is going...

On subject, if an advantix machine issues a ticket, then surely it is valid.

The issue comes down to why I cant abide jobsworths who apply the letter of the law - something Ilovetrains seems to applaud.

YAWN!!!

[John R]

The issue with mookimoo would appear to be consistency, and while she is happy for TM^‡(resolve)'s to give her discounts that she is not entitled to,.....

Not that this is at all relevant to the quote above, but did we ever get an answer as to how someone well in excess of 26 and apparently in very lucrative employment can be entitled to a YP railcard? 

[devonian]

As an aside, the fact that ticket machines and ticket offices give out different discounts for railcards only serves to harm the rail industry. I travel by train a lot and I actually had no idea that there was no FC^‡(resolve) discount for YP railcard until I couldn't buy it from the ticket office and also this thread. Personally, I'm not bothered either way. The discount was nice but it's not so huge it will affect me drastically.

Nothing like consistency in an overcomplicated ticketing system to encourage more people onto the railway...

[Tickets Please]

The issue with mookimoo would appear to be consistency, and while she is happy for TM^‡(resolve)'s to give her discounts that she is not entitled to,.....

Not that this is at all relevant to the quote above, but did we ever get an answer as to how someone well in excess of 26 and apparently in very lucrative employment can be entitled to a YP railcard? 

only way would be a student doing a course of I think its either 20 or 16 hours or more a week.

however....

maybe they met someone in a ticket office who thought 'ignore the rules, i'll show some discrection' LOL^▸ (laughing out loud)

[Tickets Please]

The issue with mookimoo would appear to be consistency, and while she is happy for TM^‡(resolve)'s to give her discounts that she is not entitled to, or not give her the hassle of a full ticket check, she then expects CH's to do their job to the letter when serving her, the same TM she complained about in other posts to go through 1st moving all std class passengers out (zero tolerance there!). and the rest of the Railway to work to the letter when it comes to getting her from A to B. As ilovetrains says, YAWN.

indeed. when it suits bend the rules to make me happy, but when I'm not happy enforce the rules even though all of those people will then think "what a jobsworth" why arnt you showing any discrection........

[inspector_blakey]

Can I politely remind those if you posting here of my fellow moderator's request elsewhere that threads do not become personal, as this one may be in danger of doing? See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4600.msg40778#msg40778.

The following excerpt is lifted directly from the Y-P terms and conditions on the web:

Eligibility

You can get a 16-25 Railcard if you're aged between 16-25 or a mature student over the age of 26 and in full-time education. If you're aged 26 or over, you'll need to provide proof that your're a full-time student at a recognised educational establishment. You must attend for over 15 hours a week and for at least 20 weeks a year. You can either show an ISIC card or have the 'Mature students only' section of the application form completed and certified.

I do not know the details of mookiemoo's personal circumstances - they're none of my business. However, is absolutely possible that mookiemoo is legitimately entitled to a 16-25 railcard. I would therefore suggest that it is inappropriate for me, or anyone else posting here, to cast doubt on the validity of her railcard. Please desist.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks, inspector_blakey.

The National Rail website gives details of the eligibility criteria for the 16-25 Railcard (formerly Young Persons Railcard), at http://www.16-25railcard.co.uk/what-is-a-16-25-railcard/eligibility .

[Tickets Please]

the discussion isn't about her individual entitlement to a YP card.

the comments were about an expectation of showing 'discretion' in issuing 1st class tickets with a YP discount when that is not permissible. That isn't discretion, that is breaking rules to have an easy life.

it then moved on to how at times it seems like 'discretion' is expected by some people when it suits or benefits them personally but those same people often insist rules are followed to the letter (not letting STD class customers alight from the 1st class carriages, moving people out of the vestibules in 1st class etc etc) when it suits them also.

there has been no suggestion by anyone posting that mookimoo has no entitlement to a YP card or for that matter suggestion that she does. (I care not if she does or doesn't)

[Mookiemoo]

The issue with mookimoo would appear to be consistency, and while she is happy for TM^‡(resolve)'s to give her discounts that she is not entitled to,.....

Not that this is at all relevant to the quote above, but did we ever get an answer as to how someone well in excess of 26 and apparently in very lucrative employment can be entitled to a YP railcard? 

Open university student - gives me an ISIC card which gets me a 16-25 rail card

Being an OU student is not sufficient for the rail companies however having an ISIC card is.

You can get an ISIC card by producing a letter from the OU stating you are studying 60 credits or more (I normally carry 120-150 which is full time study load on top of my day jon - because I spend so long on ********** trains).

So - I get my letter, get an ISIC card for 15 quid, go to the ticket office, produce my isic and get my YP card - even though I think the isic card is a joke hoop I have to jump through it saves me money over the year.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thank you, mookiemoo, for your very 'open' answer to that particular point.

[Ollie]

Have a feeling mookiemoo has explained herself before anyway?

[Mookiemoo]

Just to clarify my POV on this issue:

1. I have no time for people who assume the passenger is trying to dodge the fair (although note! - I have got on at WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) and been in the land of nod by pershore! - genuinely - but only when going to Pad and I have earplugs and no danger of sleeping through the destination!)

2. I have no time for people who will not PAY the fair or who try to avoid it

3. I have never, to my knowledge EVER not had a ticket if I could help it (I did once getting on at an unmanned, unable to find the TM^‡(resolve) and got off at an unmanned)

4. I do have an issue with the YP rules - if other cards give discounted travel on first then surely not allowing it on YP is age discrimination.  ESPECIALLY on a line that does not have the only FC^‡(resolve) fare that does not have an advance!  99% of the time it is moot as I travel on a first season so dont think I do this every day of the week (I did for the last few months as I had ad hoc travel to hemel)

5. I am the first to alert the TM to people I know are dodging or avoiding paying!  I nearly got into a bitch fight on friday because of it!  

If the advantix loop hole gets closed off or if TM's start obeying the law - fine - I'll pay, I can afford it - but dont hang me up to dry because I know the loophole is there and I dare to ask the Q!

[Btline]

I agree with Mookiemoo - if a loophole is there, you can't blame a passenger for using it.

5. I am the first to alert the TM^‡(resolve) to people I know are dodging or avoiding paying!  I nearly got into a bitch fight on friday because of it!

Very noble! What response do you get from the guard - it must be a difficult situation?

Before, how did you ensure you woke up before Reading?

[Ollie]

Knew my mind wasn't deceiving me

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2726.msg20939#msg20939