Is this good news

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Why only 125 mph?

Take the opportunity to fit in cab signalling and run them at 140 mph and (hopefully) 155 mph.

Why a diesel version? Electrify, and then run only the electric version!

They say that London to Edinburgh will be sped up by 12 mins (wow amazing reduction).... well, that'll compensate for some of the slack.

[r james]

SO the design speed is 125mph??  COuld nothing be done toupgrade this?

Wasnt it meant to be a priced option for this facility?

[Electric train]

Why only 125 mph?

Take the opportunity to fit in cab signalling and run them at 140 mph and (hopefully) 155 mph.

Why a diesel version? Electrify, and then run only the electric version!

They say that London to Edinburgh will be sped up by 12 mins (wow amazing reduction).... well, that'll compensate for some of the slack.

Why 125 there are only a few places where 140 can be obtained on the network without substantial infrastructure works, the government are investigating HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) HS3 HS4 etc which will be 186 / 200 mph

[Btline]

Parts of both the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) and the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) are ready for 140 (it having been obtained in the 70/80s).

The main upgrade required would be in cab signalling. This could be delivered with the new trains, thus minimising any disruption and cost.

I'll believe HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) when I see it. Also - it is only as far as Birmingham/Trent Valley, so not that many benefits for longer distance travellers.

If HS3,4 are ever built, these new trains would be being scrapped anyway (middle of this century). So the faster speed would be worth it in the meantime.

[paul7575]

How many carraiges will each train have?

10 x 26m coaches, which in the electric version, is equivalent to 11  fully seated 23m coaches.  I believe the requirement for a Pendolino/Voyager style crumple zone with no seats has gone away, having been found to be excessive (or it was never needed anyway)...

An earlier poster mentioned potential infrastructure problems, but the ITT^▸ (Invitation to Tender) and associated specs did cover this, the bidders were to include gauge clearance as well as station alterations, platform lengthening, depot changes etc, which is presumably why John Laing were included in the bid...

Paul

[bemmy]

12. A typical journey between London and Leeds will shorten by around 10 mins, between London and Edinburgh by 12 mins, between London and Bristol by 10 mins and between London and Cardiff by 15 mins.

So if they arrive in 2015 and have a lifespan of 30 years, in 2045 the journey from Bristol to London will still be slower than in 1976.

It seems to me that if they're having a separate diesel only version, they aren't going to electrify the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line), otherwise where would it be for?

[Btline]

Yes, it is clear that electrification is still off the agenda - whatever NR^» (Network Rail - home page) say.

The dual version will be for Aberdeen, Inverness and Glasgow (if they decide to use the shorter Shotts line).

[RailCornwall]

I think Matthew Taylor MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) is a bit confused the new Vehicles are to head to Penzance aren't they?

[Btline]

Well - that's inconsistency for you. On one page a map clearly showing that Penzance is included.

Then this article.

Come on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) get your act together....

[Electric train]

Lets take the upside to this, its another ^7.5b on top of the ^28b which is on top of the Thames Link spend and the ^0.5b on Reading and when it kicks in the ^16+b for Crossrail that's a lot of money in fact unprecedented amounts of money being spent on a mode of transport that as little as 10 years ago was written off by many as obsolescent out moded and not worth the scrape value of the rails.

The Chairman and executive team of Network Rail are extremely confident that the future is electrification, feasibility studies are a long way advanced to the extent of "in principle agreement" with National Grid for supply points across the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) (NG^▸ (Natural Gas) has a 20+ year capacity planning vision for the National Grid) its quite clear from both major political parties their transport philosophy has moved from build motorways to improve and build railways.

As I have posted before GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification is 10 but more likely 15 years away

[thetrout]

HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s only able to work till 2019...? Thats ridiculous considering that we still have MK1 Stock being used on the railways. Not to mention the Pullman stock...! 

It should not be allowed!!! 

[IndustryInsider]

Does anyone know if 26m long cars (as opposed to the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) 23m) will create route avliability/platforming problems?

They will yes. Whether they are insurmountable is a different question though.

You can get around most short platforms by having SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) (Selective Door Operation) equipment fitted, but the main hurdle is accommodating a train at the various terminating stations, as it obviously has to fit on a platform and inside a starting signal in order to return in the other direction.

A 2+8 HST with its 23m carriages and 17m power cars totals 218 metres, but if you extend much beyond that length then several of the main terminus stations such as Paddington, Swansea and Penzance will struggle to accommodate them. I would suggest that the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) trains for the GW^▸ (Great Western) route would be a maximum of 9 carriages long (giving a train length of 234 metres) or they will simple be too long.

Obviously that will be one extra passenger carrying carriage, but much of the extra benefit of that will be negated by the 'crumple zone' that will still have to be built in at both ends. So, most of the additional capacity will have to come from having 3 metres extra length per carriage to play with.

Expect the plans outlined today to be tinkered with quite significantly over the coming years!

[willc]

I think it's a bit much to berate the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page), MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament) or anyone else for being confused about all this when DafT is a model of vagueness and spin over the whole thing.

British-led? Not unless Hitachi has suddenly become British it ain't. Though I was very impressed by the straight face Geoff Hoon was able to keep when talking on TV about the Britishness of the whole thing.

Remember, it's the train no-one in the industry appears to want, the train that in bi-mode form, if one is to believe people who know about these things, simply can't deliver the performance on diesel power being claimed for it and the train that, if it ever appears, will probably look nothing like what they have been talking about today.

[r james]

I was getting worried by the video of the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) that it would only be 4 carriages long!! I feel relieved to hear oits 10 carriages!

Whats happening with Buffets?

And am I right to think that the 140mph was requested to be included in the tender as a priced option for the government to consider?

[tramway]

Not everyone is happy at the announcement.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7886766.stm

I don^t believe it will be a ^new^ train as such, more of Hitachi selling an updated Javelin concept, already capable of 140mph, with the addition of the Hayabusa technology for the diesel variant. In engineering terms not a huge leap forward from what is already tried and tested.

These could certainly be introduced in the timescales envisaged, the biggest downer is the fact that the bodies will in all probability be shipped in from Japan.

Any thoughts on where the other major components would be sourced from, MTU^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) for the diesels?