Handy hints and tips

[whole diary]

[tramway]

Actually Chris I don't think it would be a huge task as the bulk of it is probably in the original article with a little bit of editing to give a bit more of a local flavour, with possibly examples of split ticketing for the 3 core areas in the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) territory, that members use succesfully.

Another one would be useful tips on getting to St Pancras, sadly I have yet to investigate that one as I haven't had to use it since they moved. Actually on that note there is (was?) an 'Any Dutch' station ticket that isn't advertised on the web site, but they will gladly not charge the phone booking fee if you point this out.

[Tim]

Tramway makes a good suggestion about including tips with "local flavour" only.  We need to avoid getting into too much confusing detail if it is for the passenger.  might I suggest a few guidelines to be argued over:

1) keep it local.  FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area only, whatever that means
2) keep it relevent.  We should ignore anything that is best answered on a case-by-case basis and anythingthat is so complicated that it will either cause Joe Blogs to do it wrongly or will confuse or annoy the average TM^‡(resolve).  We don't want to be getting members of the public into arguments over the C of C especially if they don't fully understand that document
3) keep it structured suggested headings might be a) advanced tickets (advice on getting best deal, warning about lack of flexibility),  b) peak / off peak explanation (saving money by travlling at a different time),  c) routing (saving money by travelling a different route, d) seasontickets, e) advanced tricks (rebooking and booking beyond).  f) Local examples. g) rights when things go wrong (ie, if you miss your connection can you travel on a different train/route - when can you claim compensation for delays?)
4) do the easy stuff first - the most important routes, the greatest savings etc

[Btline]

Here is an example I did yesterday for a LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)/XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) journey. Feel free to use as an example in the thread.

Kidderminster to York ^70

By splitting the ticket at Birmingham, I saved ^30!

It worked because the Kidderminster to Birmingham section is within peak periods (and railcards are not valid), and the XC section is off peak (railcards valid). If you buy the ticket in one, you have to pay the peak, non railcard ticket!

[super tm]

Here is an example I did yesterday for a LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise)/XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) journey. Feel free to use as an example in the thread.

Kidderminster to York ^70

By splitting the ticket at Birmingham, I saved ^30!

It worked because the Kidderminster to Birmingham section is within peak periods (and railcards are not valid), and the XC section is off peak (railcards valid). If you buy the ticket in one, you have to pay the peak, non railcard ticket!

Railcards are valid at all times on that route.  Only restriction is YP card has a minimum fare - is that what you mean?

[Btline]

That must be it, although the website seemed to suggest that my railcard was not valid before 9.30.

However, the main part of my saving was due to the peak / off peak split!

[inspector_blakey]

Here are a few of my top tips:

1. Never use thetrainline.com - they charge a booking fee and a credit card fee. The overwhelming majority of train company websites (including FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s) use exactly the same system (and the tickets will be posted to you from thetrainline's office in Edinburgh) but do not charge any fees: you just pay for the ticket. National Express East Coast http://www.nationalexpresseastcoast.com has a booking engine that allows you to see which trains the cheap fares are available on much more easily than other systems, allowing you to adjust your journey plans and save money.

2. Only use Advance tickets if you can find singles for both portions of a return journey: do not be tempted to buy an Advance single ticket for one leg and an Off-Peak single for the other. Why? Because the Off-Peak return fare is generally only ^1 more than the Off-Peak single. Buying an Off-Peak return in this situation therefore saves you money and gives you greater flexibility.

3. On a related point, never buy an Off-Peak single: the return costs only ^1 more (or ^0.65 if you have a railcard). You have a month to use the return portion of the ticket and so may well find an opportunity to do so, even if only for a small part of the journey that the ticket covers: this is entirely legitimate since Off-Peak returns permit you to break your journey at intermediate stations en route.

[grahame]

Folks, I have stated off with "my" first attempt at this - taking on board the suggestion to keep it within the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) area, and trying to do it category by category - not always easy, as some overlap.  You'll find a sticky thread at the top and I welcome posts of corrections and clarifications.  I and other moderators will cut things into my post (part of which has been overtaken by ideas here) and hopefully we'll have a good, ongoing resource.  Also, we'll break out to discussion threads.

"Note to self" .... need to go back and add: 
* St Pancras and Eurostar aspects.   
* Which web sites offer the best bargains / where do you get stung for credit card charges?

[Btline]

My advice:

Always check whether a section of your journey is off peak. If so, split your peak ticket into 2 - a peak ticket and an off peak ticket.

Also split if a part of your journey goes through a "local transport authority" - their fares will be lower.

[Zoe]

Always check whether a section of your journey is off peak. If so, split your peak ticket into 2 - a peak ticket and an off peak ticket.

I was told at Taunton station in 2003/2004 that a court ruling on this went against a passenger that tried doing this on Thames Trains.  I phoned Thames Trains to ask about it and was told that the person in question was using a peak ticket from Paddington to Southall and then an off peak ticket beyond Southall and that the person lost the case in court.

[inspector_blakey]

I think the waters were muddied in that case because there was an issue over zonal tickets being used, on a train that did not call at the boundary (the complainant was a Dr Hack-Polay; the case was covered in detail by Barry Doe at the time, who was of the opinion that suing was the wrong way to make the complaint and Dr Hack-Polay would have had more joy from a complaint to the erstwhile RPC)

The NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) are crystal clear: you are absolutely entitled to use two tickets for your journey, as long as the train calls at the point where your tickets change over. If this enables you to use a peak ticket for part of the journey and off-peak for the remainder then that is a legitimate money-saving tactic.

Remember that TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff must abide by the conditions of carriage and have no authority to change or waive them. Further, booking clerks must sell you split journey combinations if you request them (although I think that they are actually forbidden from suggesting them). If anyone has been denied the opportunity to split a journey through some staff misunderstanding that particular court case then a complaint to the TOC concerned should result in a refund of any extra money you had to spend.

[Tim]

If anyone has been denied the opportunity to split a journey through some staff misunderstanding that particular court case then a complaint to the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) concerned should result in a refund of any extra money you had to spend.

I was denied sale of split journey tickets at Bath in 2005.  A complaint to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) resulted in a refund, an extra ^25 of vouchers and a very long detailed and grovelling appology.  I have never had problems since

[Zoe]

If I want to go from Newton Abbot to Birmingham for the day, a combination of four off peak day returns (NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) - TAU^» (Taunton - next trains), TAU - BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains), BRI - CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains), CNM - BHM) costs ^48.60.  The off peak return fare from Newton Abbot to Birmingham New Street is ^73.70 so by using the combination of four tickets I can save ^25.10.  Could Newton Abbot refuse to sell me a combination of four tickets?

[Tim]

If I want to go from Newton Abbot to Birmingham for the day, a combination of four off peak day returns (NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) - TAU^» (Taunton - next trains), TAU - BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains), BRI - CNM^» (Cheltenham Spa - next trains), CNM - BHM) costs ^48.60.  The off peak return fare from Newton Abbot to Birmingham New Street is ^73.70 so by using the combination of four tickets I can save ^25.10.  Could Newton Abbot refuse to sell me a combination of four tickets?

No.

[Zoe]

No.

Thanks, I guess I just have to insist if they try to refuse it.  Twice at Taunton they tried to refuse me a combination of TAU^» (Taunton - next trains) - NTA^» (Newton Abbott - next trains) and NTA - EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains) when it was cheaper than TAU - NTA, both times they did issue it when I insisted but I got the impression they were a bit annoyed about it most times I went in and asked for that combination.

[inspector_blakey]

Absolutely right. If they do refuse then write in to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) and reclaim the difference. It's a bit more work for the clerk to issue 4 tickets but you are totally within your rights under the CoC^▸ (Chamber of Commerce TBA) to request them (especially when it can save you that much money!).