GroupSave questions (merged topic)

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Scenario.

Me, and three of my friends (shall we call them Tom, Dick and Harry) are going to London for the day on Saturday, catching the 09:15 up from Melksham and getting back at 21:47.   We'll sit together on the way up, catch up on the weeks news,, but when we get to London, we'll be splitting into two groups. Tom and I are going book shopping in Foyles, whereas Dick and Harry are going to Whitechapel to meet up with a young lady that Dick knew at Uni.

We'll all meet up at Paddington about 7:30 to get a quick burger before catching the train home as a group.

Question. Do the rules let us get and use a GroupSave 4 Melksham -> London and Travelcard for our journeys?

[eightf48544]

I think the Goupsave Melksham to Padd only  is OK as you are travelling both ways as a group.

But I think on the groupsave travel card you must still travel as as group. However, I'm not sure how the LT barriers operate with Groupsave. Does it say "Seek Assistance" and make you go via the manned barrier. If it does allow you through the barriers then you could split up but you might get caught by the plain clothes revenue protection squad.

It is something we seem to get terribly upset about in this country, transferrability of train tickets.

I remember travelling on my own from Quedlinburg to Gernode on a Schones Wockenende (5 person group day rover) Magdeburg issue the ticket as it was cheaper than two singles as I was going out to the HSB via Gernrode and back from Wernigerode. The cripper checked my ticket and then the girl next door who asked for a single to an intermediate station. He then asked me if she was on my ticket so I said yes so she got a free ride on my ticket.

Don't forget Groupsave is only available from manned ticket offices. I think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are bending the rules by not issuing them from machines particularly in the Thames Valley where 4 people may want to do an evening trip to London on a Travelcard, they get charged for 4 tickets. More money for FGW from the suckers who don't know how to get the best deal!



 

[jester]

Groupsave tickets are issued all the time in the west here as we have so many unmanned stations, avantix machines can do them and I dont think its a stipulation of the ticket.

[inspector_blakey]

Don't forget Groupsave is only available from manned ticket offices. I think FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are bending the rules by not issuing them from machines particularly in the Thames Valley where 4 people may want to do an evening trip to London on a Travelcard, they get charged for 4 tickets. More money for FGW from the suckers who don't know how to get the best deal!

I agree that this is a rather "sharp" practice. SWT^▸ (South West Trains) also do it (or were until recently). I have read of promises from both that the Scheidt and Bachmann Ticket Xpress machines will have software upgraded to enable GroupSave but no progress yet.

However, as I understand it if you want to travel on a GroupSave ticket, the ticket office is closed and self-service machines will not sell GroupSave tickets then Condition 2 applies as follows: there is no machine that will sell the ticket you require and therefore you should buy a ticket to cover at least part of your journey (thus providing evidence of where you boarded) and at the first reasonable opportunity (most likely when you either encounter a conductor/ticket examiner, change trains at a staffed station or reach a station exit barrier) you can "cash in" the original ticket when you buy the ticket you actually want. Because this is in the NRCoC^▸ (National Rail Conditions of Carriage) it is written in stone and no train company nor its staff can legitimately penalize you by charging a penalty fare or full anytime single.

Interestingly although the FGW website has the NRCoC on it condition 2 is not reproduced properly: it's missing the vital section that applies here!

Incidentally, rail staff feel free to correct me if what I have said above is not correct and you know the correct version.

[grahame]

Thanks ... so to summarise:

a) The Group stipulation DOES apply to the TravelCard section too (but still cost effective to use a group save to London)

b) Careful how / where you turn up to buy them (but not a problem at Melksham as they sel lthem on  the train)

I share your concerns at the ticket machine issue (and of course there are other limits as to what a ticket machine can sell too) but commend the web site which does automatically select "groupsave" under the "railcard" box if you ask for four adults.

[Btline]

I doubt the barriers will have a problem with your ticket.

Or the barrier staff!

(interestingly, I went to London with 3 friends on Groupsave, but Chiltern -we used them because of no evening peak restrictions- did not sell the Groupsave travel cards, so they had to be bought separately)

[Btline]

Is Group Save valid on any Off-Peak Return?

e.g. From Kidderminster to London on the 0730 departure (arrives at London at 1025)

e.g.2 Worcester to London on the 9.15ish departure (arrives 11.30ish)

It seems that avantix says yes (if I have understood the reams of jargon) but FGW^▸ (First Great Western).com and Chiltern.com say no, and don't sell groupsaves until afternoon! The LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) website doesn't even let you select Group Save!

I would be very grateful if someone could check this. Thanks in advance.

[Ollie]

When are you planning on doing at as some dates/times may be barred.

[super tm]

Group save tickets have the same restriction as the non discounted ticket.

So yes group save valid from Worcester to London

However if there is no time restriction on the non discounted ticket then it is valid after 0930.

Valid anytime weekends.  There are some barred dates during high demand. 

[Btline]

I've checked the "banned" dates, and Chiltern don't have them, and the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) ones are clear.

So if both the tickets are valid, why don't the websites let you buy them?

[Btline]

Thanks both for your help in this query.

Although does anyone know why you can't seem to get Groupsaves for AM travel online?

[Brucey]

Something that has annoyed me for a long time now, just wondering if there is any logical explanation.

I bought an Off Peak Day Return on Groupsave 4 with seat reservations.  I was handed 16 tickets plus my receipt: a ticket each for the outbound, a ticket each for the return and a reservation coupon for each person in each direction.

The ticket office was using Fujitsu Star.

Why can't they put all the passengers on one ticket?  Surely that would be easier as you all have to travel together to get the Groupsave discount anyway?

I know that the NXEC^▸ (National Express East Coast) online booking system (which I think uses Tribute to issue the tickets) can combine the seat reservations onto one coupon but still issues a ticket for each person.

Is there any reason why you would need a ticket each?  I was under the impression that status code GPS-4 wouldn't open the ticket barrier anyway?  Do other train companies issue tickets like this or is it just the craziness of FGW^▸ (First Great Western)?

[super tm]

So you have one each for the barrier.  Tickets will normally work the barrier unless they have been set to reject them.

[Tim]

  I was under the impression that status code GPS-4 wouldn't open the ticket barrier anyway? 

That may be the case with some barriers but not all at all times.  Revenue staff can reprogram the barriers to reject certain tickets if they are targetting fraud on those tickets but at other times they may want the tickets accepted.  One ticket each gives this flexibility.

[moonrakerz]

So you have one each for the barrier.  Tickets will normally work the barrier unless they have been set to reject them.

Isn't that the reason that they have a human being on the barriers as well - to allow for all the various stupidities in the "system" ?

Last week at Exeter St Davids (waiting for a connection) I followed the "Cash machine" signs and ended up outside the station - then my ticket from Westbury to Paignton wouldn't let me back in again ! I then walked through the "manned" gate unhindered !