refurb voyager

[whole diary]

[paul7575]

The Voyagers are not really being refurbished though, more like 'modified'. Nothing is done to the train in general, just 'work in wake' of the changes.  The extra seats are the ones originally taken out when the extra luggage stacks were fitted, noticeable because their upholstery hasn't had 5 or 6 years of wear and tear.

Paul

[Tim]

They are badly designed trains. The big issues like the underfloor engines and the fact that they are too short can be blamed on the economic environment/franchise spec/operator greed/whatever at the time, bit I give you a list below of faults which are nothing to do with money just a question of bad design:

1,Scrolling reservation displays
2,internal doors that close on people
3,shop in the middle of the train so two queues form (Why on earth did Branson think that a shop was better than a buffet counter)
4, luggage racks that get a better view than the seats
5, too many disabled toilets with unreliable doors
6, the smell
7, too small toilet tanks
8, space wasting luggage racks (filling a space with two small racks rather than one big one so that space is wasted by the rack itself
9, having a space next to where the sliding internal doors open into just big enough for a suitcase which incourages people to put a suitcase there and jam the doors.
10, putting hand dryer next to automatic tap so that when you dry your hands the tap switches on and wets them again!

They should win an award for bad design.  Good design is a question of coming up with the best possible product within the limitations imposed on you.  Bad design is taking a bad spec and making it worse
 

[Don]

You may not like sitting on top of a big Cummins diesel, but since HST^▸ (High Speed Train) production ended in 1982 and everyone else in Europe uses electric trains for long-distance work, the likes of Voyagers and Adelantes were all that train builders were prepared to offer.

.....

Making the best of a bad job, see if you can book first class advance - as the current thread in Fares Fair points out, it is often cheaper and legroom certainly isn't a problem in that coach - and never, ever travel XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) on a Sunday afternoon or evening.

Well as for the engines, the Trans-Pennine trains - 3 coaches, with very powerful engines are both more comfortable and quieter.

And as for the 1st class, each Voyager has the huge number of 19 seats.  Just 19, which means that there are occasions when I have seen 1st class passengers standing (and complaining). 

Oh and for the record, you can still smell the toilets in 1st class.

Restart BREL^▸ (British Rail Engineering Ltd) and build some more Mk3 coaches and HST power cars that's what I say - limited need for re-design and the ability to replace the power cars with electric traction at a later date (which will probably never happen anyway).

[Network SouthEast]

I think really what we need is simply newer coaching stock. When the 43s give up the ghost, order a load of 67s and job done. Whenever electrification happens you then only need to replace the locos with electric ones.

[Btline]

Yes, I am looking forward to my first "First Class" journey (and I have a seat reservation so will make a huge fuss if anything goes wrong).

Free food besides; the journey will be relaxing and I will DEFINITELY get a table AND a view. So actually, it'll be like a table seat in standard class for most operators!

Tim, you have added yet more reasons to why Voyagers are cr*p. 

They are AWFUL. Another problem is the CISs^▸ (Customer Information System) at the ends of each carriage. They need space for 2 rows of text, so the top can say "Birmingham New Street" while the bottom scrolls all the H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) nonsense (mind the gap etc.) which nobody reads, but XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) have to display due to H&S. When the train is moving, the top can say "Coach D" while the bottom scrolls "Shop Open: which sells x..y..etc".

The door cycle is also too long (although at least there is no silly European style step to fold out) leading to longer dwells than necessary.

[Tim]

. When the train is moving, the top can say "Coach D" while the bottom scrolls "Shop Open: which sells x..y..etc".

Or even an ordinary non-electronic sign with the coach letter on it.

[bemmy]

The door cycle is also too long (although at least there is no silly European style step to fold out) leading to longer dwells than necessary.

Yeah I don't like the way you have to stand and wait for four doors to open between each carriage, as you walk through the train looking for a working toilet, or seeing if you can get to the shop before they've sold the sandwich.

[Zoe]

You may not like sitting on top of a big Cummins diesel, but since HST^▸ (High Speed Train) production ended in 1982 and everyone else in Europe uses electric trains for long-distance work, the likes of Voyagers and Adelantes were all that train builders were prepared to offer.

So no-one was prepared to build a loco and coaches combination?

[Btline]

since...1982...the likes of Voyagers and Adelantes were all that train builders were prepared to offer.

The InterCity 225s were built after HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train).

The proposed InterCity 250s, which were only shelved due to money shortages (the money being spent on Networkers instead), were to be build well after HSTs.

And Eurostar.

So loco + coaches was still on the agenda.

[Tim]

I am sure that GM would be happy to offer a passenger class 67 varient at a reasonable price

[Zoe]

The proposed InterCity 250s, which were only shelved due to money shortages (the money being spent on Networkers instead), were to be build well after HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train).

Not quite, the InterCity 250 was as you say cancelled (possibly due to impending privatisation) but there was then a plan to order some InterCity 225s for the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) but the funding for this went on the networkers instead.  It should also be noted that had the Intercity 250 been built, there was a plan was to cascade mark 3 stock the Cross Country routes and so no Voyagers.

[Btline]

What a shame the project was shelved. We would have a 155 mph WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) , and no Voyagers.

[willc]

since...1982...the likes of Voyagers and Adelantes were all that train builders were prepared to offer.

I was referring to the numerous complaints about sitting on top of 750hp of diesel and the fact that no-one anywhere builds a high-speed diesel train anything like an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) and hasn't since 1982 and didn't when Virgin was looking for new stock.

The Class 91/Mk4 train is effectively a high-speed electric unit train that only has one power car - the locos hardly ever run blunt cab first and then only in an emergency and they don't come off the trains for a diesel to replace them. Intercity 250 was designed as an electric-only train for the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line). Eurostar is an electric unit train, etc. None is what anyone would recognise as a classic separate loco and coaches design.

Virgin did, I seem to remember, consider loco haulage when planning its new fleet, but instead opted for a 'go-anywhere' DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) design, hence the Voyager.

And GM is highly unlikely to be offering any more Class 67s. Network Rail has never liked them due to the 22.5-tonne axle loading and the impact they have on the track, and I'm pretty sure they have never been allowed to run above 110mph except in testing, so couldn't keep to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) timings.

[6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01]

isnt gm working on a new loco?

[IndustryInsider]

And GM is highly unlikely to be offering any more Class 67s. Network Rail has never liked them due to the 22.5-tonne axle loading and the impact they have on the track, and I'm pretty sure they have never been allowed to run above 110mph except in testing, so couldn't keep to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) timings.

And the acceleration on a Class 67 is pretty woeful - far inferior to any recent DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)/EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) design even when hauling short trains like the W&S^▸ (Wrexham and Shropshire (Open Access Operator)) services.